refurbed is One Step Closer to Becoming Austria’s Next Unicorn Startup | Startuprad.io Episode 381
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I was working in a startup in Shanghai, so I had my first real startup job in China.
Kilian Kaminski, Founder refurbed
Executive Summary
Learn about how refurbed, an innovative startup, could be the next Austrian unicorn. Learn more about their goal of providing pre-owned gadgets & tech at reasonable prices! Refurbed originally started as a marketplace where large companies can sell their refurbished electronics so that they don’t need to throw them away, think laptops and cell phones that are replaced. Now they offer a much wider range of products, from hand-picked refurbishers. Learn more in our interview.
Our goal is to be everywhere in Europe, as a mid-term strategy. Maybe also global in the future.
Kilian Kaminski, Founder refurbed
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We want to give users the option to buy refurbished products, instead of new ones.
Kilian Kaminski, Founder refurbed
EU Startups Summit
This interview was recorded outside of the EU Startups Summit 2023 on April 20th in Barcelona. Thank you EU Startups for the great event.
The Video Interview is set to go live on Thursday, May 4th, 2023
The Audio Interview
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The Founder
Kilian Kaminski (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kiliankaminski/) is the founder of Vienna, Austria-based soonicorn refurbed. A soonicorn is a startup, that is expected to become a unicorn soon. He is also a Forbes 30 under 30 and from Germany one of Capital’s 40 under 40. Kilian is originally from Hamburg but has been working in Brisbane, Australia as a marketing and brand manager in Germany and at a startup in Shanghai, China. He even got to meet Pink and Jennifer Lopez during their tours in Australia. After all those positions he joined Amazon as a key account manager and program lead for their certified refurbished marketplace in Germany. Leaving this position to found his marketplace for refurbished electronics in Austria, called refurbed. Kilian is one of three founders of refurbed.
The Startup
Refurbed (https://www.refurbed.de/) originally started as a marketplace where large companies can sell their refurbished electronics so that they don’t need to throw them away, think laptops and cell phones that are replaced. The company does not refurbish the devices, but they hand-pick the refurbishers on the platform. On average only two components are replaced during the refurbishment process. The marketplace originally was started for cell phones and notebooks, but now offers a much wider range of products, e.g. household electronics like a Thermomix, tablets, or smartwatches. Now even original producers are selling refurbished products on the platform.
Our goal is to be profitable at the end of the year [2023], which looks quite promising now. So we don’t need external investors, but we are open to talk.
Kilian Kaminski, Founder refurbed
Venture Capital Funding
Refurbed is funded with more than 70 m US$, at the time of the interview, with backing from 20 investors including Kreos Capital, Alpha Associates, Seven Ventures, Hermes GPE, C4 Ventures, Expon Capital, Bonsai Partners, Evli Growth Partners, All Iron Ventures. They raised their first funding round in August 2017 and their most recent Series B funding in August 2021. The company is open to talk to new investors.
Hiring!
You can learn more about the company that is still hiring
at https://www.refurbed.de/jobs/
Tune in to our Internet Radio Station here:
Further Readings / Additional Resources
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The Interviewer
This interview was conducted by Jörn “Joe” Menninger, startup scout, founder, and host of Startuprad.io. Reach out to him:
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Automated Transcript
[0:00] Startuprad.io.
[0:09] Your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German-speaking startup scene. With News interviews and Live Events.
[0:14] Hey guys this is Joe from startuprad.io today we bring you another interview from Barcelona where we attended the EU startup Summit and recorded those interviews on site let me also quickly thank today’s sponsor expressvpn as an entrepreneur cybersecurity should always be in the back of your mind.
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Hello and welcome everybody this is Joe from startuprad.io bringing you yet another interview from the EU startups on it this time I have a start-up from Austria here in the person of Killian hi can you introduce yourself, hi yeah it’s a pleasure to be here my name is Killian I’m one of the founders of refurbed.
[1:45] Originally I’m from Hamilton Germany I then lift quite a while abroad Australia China and London before I started my career working at Amazon in Munich and building up the whole refurbished program farmers in Europe.
After I realized I’m not gonna start focusing on them I then found the refurbed the beginning 2017 so six and a half years ago now.
And I guess many questions coming afterwards so I want to leave it like this and you guys are officially on many many Sunni colonists as referred yeah we.
Luckily kind of the the scene outside.
Things that we are should be part of the Sunni called list and we are personally on doing really doing it for the just for the money perspective but really doing it to create an impact and so we take it as a big compliment, potential capital and other players in the market things that we are the possible to Nicolas in the future, but plastic small about creating an impact and really driving our business in the best possible way and if we are creating the biggest possible impact we automatically.
Come to being a unicorn in the future you have been talking about living in China and Australia how did this happen.
[2:52] Yeah so after you finished my high school I really wanted to live abroad and improve my English to from the kind of school English version to really going into business English, so I decided to go to Australia we are not did the classic work and travel which ready off my friends did during the time of the high school but I really work there so I worked for event Agency for half a year, where I was in charge of supporting the biggest kind of music stars from Black Eyed Peas pink Jennifer Lopez.
And organize their tours and traveled with them to Australia which was an amazing experience and gave me kind of the foundation for having a proper English now also working working level English.
And then I did my masters degree in Shanghai because I’m rich from Hamburg Germany where, when you’re standing at the river help seeing a lot of Ships coming from China so I was always interested in seeing the country where the ships are coming from and they seeing the economy there so I decided to do my master degree in Shanghai it was nearly exactly 10 years ago, I was also able to work next to my studies in the startup in Shanghai so I had my first touch point with startups already in China before I then moved back to Europe.
[4:00] It’s a start-up you worked for in China still around no it doesn’t exist anymore it was a start-up which created a household goods From the Ashes of bamboo.
So it was really interesting like Curry mix like nectar Amex.
And I did the marketing there so something completely different but it already had then like the sustainable Touch of reusing existing natural resources like bamboo to create quranic out of it so I think.
Probably this was the first touch point of really focusing on sustainability in the startup environment that was what I was going for as well how did he decide after living in Shanghai after living in Australia to go back to Germany and what Drew you back.
[4:42] I mean I was literally really open for also studying or working after my studies internationally but I am, Compass Rock opportunity working at Amazon and when I then had the author of Amazon asking me if I want to join there for working for the marketplace.
I thought it would be really interesting because I mean the biggest e-commerce player at was I think 2014 when I started there and I was thought.
Learning from the biggest player in the market will help me also, McCurry after Amazon to understand e-commerce much better than other players in the market and so I just decided of going to to study in Munich but then with my startup now refurbed we based it on Austria so took me from Hamburg for the south from Munich and then now, based in Vienna which I really like as well I always tell my audience of Vienna’s beautiful before Christmas.
Yeah I mean the Christmas markets I think probably either one of the most beautiful across the globe so I highly suggest everyone who listens to use a chance, Before Christmas to travel to to Vienna to see the Christmas markets and of course trying maybe a mulled wine there as well.
For everybody who’s not familiar with Christmas markets they should open sometime end of November and go until Christmas so you have end of November until.
23rd of December to enjoy this time there and as I’ve seen you progress you progress.
[6:08] In the ranks of an assassin how much did it help you now to build up refurbed we are personally think.
Having working experience helps a lot so I mean there’s often the discussion do you should you work before you finding a start-up so a lot of startups are found outside of University.
I personally think it’s really valuable to wear.
Getting working experience it’s also my co-founder Peter he worked for McKinsey as a consultant learned a lot there about marketplaces in e-commerce businesses myself I was really able to understand how marketplaces are working when y working at Amazon learning about sales.
A supporting us at the key account manager there but also learning a lot from different management styles which I now also able to implement in our own company, kind of taking the best learnings I got from some of my managers and also exclude some of the things I didn’t like about the management style, so in the end it’s a bit of a puzzle that you kind of creating and I would still say that it Amazon there a lot of really bright and interesting people so I learned a lot and I think.
[7:08] I’m using still a lot of the learnings that I was able to gain their for refurbed but with my own personal touch I would say in this probably makes it a special.
We are always hinting at referred to your.
Can you first tell us how you actually made the decision to do that because I realized in the past there have been many stories on bars late night when I was the business Angel of the Year 2020 Nicola Asia actually told us he made the first decision to invest as a business angel half trunk.
At the bar on a wedding how is your funding story, yeah I personally think that even alcohol is not the best thing that you can then you can take it should often enables you to be let’s say more open-minded also for, a decisions about maybe changing the way you’re currently working all future planning of your own strategy of your life, so in our case is what’s kind of similar so a and I we knew each other from our studies in Shanghai so then he worked for Mackenzie I work for Amazon but we met over Christmas in Vienna so kind of assess you just described about the Christmas markets so we headed to a dinner and then went to a Christmas Market, we drank a couple of beers maybe a couple of more, and then theoretically really decided over the spears that we want to found a company which is a Marketplace for refurbished products then of course it kind of happened really really fast there we realized, we should focus on it.
[8:31] There is a huge Market there is a huge possibilities for us to make it happen and it really creates a huge impact if we are able to bring the circular economy the refurbished products to be the new normality in the future, so yeah kind of beers where one of the root causes why we felt were founded you know what’s interesting we are recording on Korean cell phone but on refurbed even better than happy to here and there.
I’m now like also visible on one of our products awesome and can you tell us a little bit more about what you guys are actually doing there because my understanding I was skimming through the website my understanding is you’re basically.
[9:11] Polishing up taking care of used product for example cell phones headphones whatever is out there tablet.
And then make them able to be sold again refurbished and then sold again yeah so we as refurbed G Marketplace platform that means that we ourselves who do not refurbish the devices but we work with around.
Hence elected and hand-picked refurbishers which are really not back the corner.
[9:39] Passover the train station but really proper businesses which are using the same materials and equipment like manufacturers of producing the devices and we bringing these products like our refurbishers are refurbishing these products.
Two enough to 40 steps so that at the end of the proces products look like new and function like new and then they selling them through our platform and what is really really important the majority of our products, they coming from big companies like for example travel companies like Lufthansa or big Banks like the Deutsche Bank Gaza and the players in the market which are selling their refurbished like their use, Company products after one or two years after the exchanging them to refurbish us which are then refurbishing them on average only two components are replaced and that makes it so.
So this is an ecosystem about a Marketplace business model, and as you touch like what kind of products we are selling we originally coming from smartphones and notebooks but nowadays you can also buy in from us for example household goods like a Hoover, you can buy Kitchen products like a Tamil mix you can buy ebike even Sports coats or yoga equipment so we really.
[10:41] Extended our product portfolio and directly working with Brands like a g or cashier that are now also selling their refurbished products through our platform.
[10:49] This would really makes us happy because it brings us closer to our overall Vision to really be this one-stop-shop for sustainable consumption and allowing every consumer to really buy everything they need for their household offer their private life.
Also refurbed.
Awesome I’ll link down for everybody who’s not from Germany what is a Tamil mix yeah yeah yeah kitchen machines kitchen that can do almost everything.
[11:14] You guys are frequently listed as SUNY coins a year big help of the Austrian and Vienna based startup scene.
Can you tell us a little bit how you make those steps to really grow did you always have the next step in mind the next five steps did you have somebody to coach you because many many Founders are surprised about.
They when they find out what they have to do to reach the next growth step or the one after that or the one after that.
[11:44] Frequently it helps when they talk to entrepreneurs who have already done so yeah so I personally think that it’s really helpful if you have a network around you.
Can also challenge your ideas your strategy your perspective and specifically people which maybe are a couple of steps ahead of your own company size and Company grows that you’re in but overall I.
Funny story that I can maybe share is historically when you’re starting a company you know creating a business plan also for example to getting loans or support from the government, and recreates the business plan with A Five-Year Plan and when we handle it in we kind of calculated how The Growers will be and what our size will be after 5 years, and interesting wise and literally we hit exactly the number after five years of represented, and the person from the governmental loan agreement that we headed with told us that we were one of the first companies ever who literally hitted.
Snakes.
Gross Target because normally everyone kind of accelerated the potential a bit further than it really is in the reality so I think we are quite good and planning but of course in general is fast about.
[12:48] Really regularly rethink the strategy divisions we are having so when we started we wanted to be this the biggest refurbished play Marketplace.
In Europe and now we also extended outside of the electronic category as I mentioned through household Kitchen products even e-bikes or Sports because we see that.
The potential of the impact that we want to create and this is an hour case mainly Environmental.
He’ll be much much bigger if we looking about consumption the whole and not only in the electronic sector so we really want to go and all of this direction and growth in our case means.
[13:21] Pedigree expansion it means business model expansion like not only selling refurbished products but also enabling people to sell their old devices back to us through our referred by back.
It’s about opening the B2B business model so also enabling companies from smes to corporates of buying and selling their equipment sustainable, and also of course is means expansion so not only that we are based in Germany and Austria we started it, but we’re now also acts as an Ireland Sweden Denmark Netherlands and Italy so that also we want to offering our opportunities of buying refurbished products to many more markets than just Austria Germany.
We are here today in Spain so I assume Spain France is also on your list are there the big economies left in Europe right.
[14:03] Yeah so of course I mean here to give you our goal is to be everywhere in Europe as a midterm strategy and maybe also Global in the future but Focus versus Europe because we really want to enable people the opportunity the opportunity to buy.
Products refurbished, so by having a sustainable option of buying and not being required to buy new products and this of course is similar in every country where they do not have this opportunity in this possibility to buy these products sustainable and refurbished, so our goal is literally to go in all of the markets, but of course fast it’s really important to understand each individual Market because their cultural difference they are different and how to attack them with marketing and activities so in general we really want to have a specific focus on which Market we go next understand the market and then hit it as successful as possible during the end of the day really serve the customers and consumers in the best possible way I see and since you’re a steadily in expansion mode I would have two questions left one of them are you open to talk to new investors.
[15:00] And when are you may be looking at raising index funds yeah I mean it’s the start of I think you’re always.
Always ready for investment we’re not proactively looking for it but I think like from the business model that we’re having specifically also over the last couple of years how we grew and how the market trends regarding Trends towards sustainability, the inflation which results in less affordability of products and we are selling product which are cheaper than a new product, so also increases our growth in the market I think we really a check to for investors we also realizing that a lot of investors are approaching us, and yeah we are we looking for investment but not.
Pressure is way so we have luckily that we have enough cash on the bank and we are our goal is to be end of this your profitable, which looks quite promising that we are able to achieve this they are not also required to raise Capital but of course please feel free to reach out if you’re interested in investing into a sustainable business model these three are able to have a conversation.
[16:00] The last question when you continuously in expansion mode of course you are looking for new employees right.
[16:08] Yeah so I mean if I think it’s a little bit nasty we grow a lot We Grew From 150 to 300 people, which was really required to set up the foundation for the company in the different departments having enough people there which are able to fulfill the job, now we’re specifically looking for specialized talents which are really good at specific business areas, but I think currently we have around 12 jobs listed on our website so please check them out on our career website and if you would also like to work for a mission-driven company and change the world for the better then feel free to apply.
And, all the links you’ll find down here on our blog post in the show notes and of course your LinkedIn profile the company website and the careers website, thank you very much muchas gracias thank you it was a pleasure to be here Arias.
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[17:13] Music.
