In this episode Phil speaks with Nora Bateson, an educator, filmmaker, and writer known for her distinctive expertise and perspectives on complexity and change. We talk about the discomfort and disquiet of change, the deeply seeded parts of our cultures that are presently undergoing rapid change, and the end of the age of individualism. You can learn more about Nora's work here: https://batesoninstitute.org/, and the essay we discuss in the episode, What is Submerging?" can be found here: https://norabateson.medium.com/what-is-submerging-ad12df016cde. You can also follow Nora on Twitter: https://twitter.com/NoraBateson