Bonus: What We Know About the FTX Collapse?
Executive Summary
In this bonus episode of our expert interview series, Antonio Fatas, Professor of Economics at INSEAD, joins us to provide insights into the current situation with FTX. We’ve gathered a good deal of information about the collapse so far but there is still much that remains unknown. We delved into some of the known facts surrounding FTX and pondered together on what could happen in the future. It’s clear from our discussion that FTX was not a regulated financial institution, and also had its own unique challenges. We’ll be keeping an eye out for more developments related to FTX as time goes on to see what other lessons we can learn.
I do believe there are other places where entities are insolvent, we just have not seen it yet.
Antonio Fatas, Professor of Economics
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FTX suffered from bad management and likely fraud as well
Antonio Fatas, Professor of Economics
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At FTX there were only a hand full of individuals who made decisions with very poor tools like an Excel Spreadsheet to make transactions in the fund.
Antonio Fatas, Professor of Economics
The Video Interview is set to go live on December 26th, 2022
Regulators may now have a different view on the risks and regulations of crypto.
Antonio Fatas, Professor of Economics
The Audio Interview
You can subscribe to our podcasts here.
I find it very revealing that these tokens that are supposed to work with high inflation, because the central banks are all crazy but this is the way to hold on to your purchasing power. Now that we have inflation, they are collapsing. That to me is a really red flag.
Antonio Fatas, Professor of Economics
Background
As crypto continues to grow into a new and important market, the digital asset industry has been rocked by the sudden collapse of one of its biggest crypto exchanges — FTX. Led by crypto personality Sam Bankman-Fried, FTX had previously been ranked as the world’s third-biggest crypto exchange in terms of trading volume, so its downfall came as quite a shock to crypto investors. This news is sure to cause ripples throughout the crypto industry for a long time, and it serves as another reminder that despite its rising popularity, crypto remains an unpredictable and high-risk gamble.
This event echoed Mt Gox’s downfall although the underlying problem was quite different. Unlike Mt. Gox which fell victim to hack, FTX merely could not keep up with the sudden demand for withdrawals caused by investors who were losing faith in the platform. The resulting effect sent FTT, their native token, tumbling and kicked off a domino effect causing customers to rush out of the exchange and further crippling its ability to sustain itself, leading inevitably to its demise.
Bitcoin crashed, Ethereum crashed, and almost every other major token did the same. Then Binance stepped in, with the world’s number one exchange announcing it would buy FTX and ensure everyone gets repaid. But just as soon as the market settled, Binance announced a U-turn, saying the situation at FTX was beyond recovery.
The implications from the complase of FTX will be felt for crypto for the coming years in more an tougher regulations. That is why we will follow the story. We start with a discussion of the situation with our guest. Professor Fatas.
The Expert
Antonio Fatas (https://www.insead.edu/faculty-research/faculty/antonio-fatas) is an influential professor of economics with an impressive set of credentials. With a Ph.D. in Economics from Harvard University and a research fellowship at the Centre for Economic and Policy Research in London, he brings broad expertise to his job as a Professor of Economics at INSEAD. His influence reaches beyond academia, working as a consultant for international organizations such as the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), and the World Bank. Thanks to his insight and knowledge, Dr. Fatas has been able to shape economic policies on a global scale.
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Further Readings / Additional Resources
- Mica Regulation https://www.sygna.io/blog/what-is-mica-markets-in-crypto-assets-eu-regulation-guide/
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The Interviewer
This interview was conducted by Jörn “Joe” Menninger, startup scout, founder, and host of Startuprad.io. Reach out to him:
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Topics Discussed in this Interview
In this interview, we are talking about #finance #fintech #crypto #regulation #compliance #forensic #insovlency #technology #chinesewalls #broker #dealer #brokerdealer #exchange #sec #bahamas #ftx #scam #fraud #hedgefund #cryptocurrency
Automated Transcript
[0:00] Music.
[0:20] Hello and welcome everybody this is Joe from startuprad.io your startup podcast and you to block from and Ford the german-speaking startup scene today I’m bringing you a bonus episode on the 26th
of December 2022
and I would like to welcome Antonio to our bonus episode as our subject matter expert hey Antonia how you doing.
I’m doing okay how are you.
[0:48] I’m doing good as well and by the way good afternoon to Singapore because you attend us from there I’m.
[0:59] As always I add a little bit context to this in Germany the 26th is a public holiday so basically everything is shut down
and usually you cannot expect to reach somebody there so we thought it would be good idea to give them some.
[1:16] Food For Thought on what was going on
in ft x therefore I have Antonio’s guest you are a professor of Economics at insead
Singapore campus with a PhD from Harvard University in economics and you’re also research fellow at the center for economic and policy research in London
and you’ve worked as a consultant for international organization such as the IMF the international monetary fund oecd and the World Bank.
So welcome again to our episode as a subject matter expert and we would like to talk a little bit.
[1:58] About FTX exploring a little bit what we know I’m sure within the next let’s say five years a lot more details
will pop up in maybe we around with little bit what we’re saying here but we can only talk about
what we know so far could you give us a little brief introduction how ft x looked for you right now
right now of course it’s his fail financial institution they entered bankruptcy is a in many ways the classic case of a financial institution going bad
a combination of poor management
and from what we know today possibly fraud as well I think what is the special in this case what is different from others is of course ft x lives in the Crypt the world
it’s a crypto currency exchange together with other Associated financial institutions that do things like being a hedge fund but mostly is a cryptocurrency Exchange
and because it was one of the main crypto currency exchanges it is not just one more story of something failing I think it’s a it’s a moment of maybe a wake-up call for people in this world or all of us and we’re all asking questions
put the something special where the something that was special because of this was a crypto currency exchange and not a regular bank or a regular hedge fund.
[3:22] Exercise a regular bank or regular hedge fund because
maybe somebody is seeing it from the outside having no background in financial services for them it all looks the same but the crypto exchange is something
really really different from a regulated exchange let’s say NASDAQ or New York Stock Exchange in the US or daughter Brazilian Frankfurt right.
[3:45] Yeah I mean adding is very hard to talk about what are regulated crypto currency exchange is because that’s not clear model for the regulation of these exchanges
FTX mostly with doing business outside of the US in the Bahamas.
Where regulation is very Luxe and nothing compared to what you see in Germany or in the US or in Singapore where I live there was an arm of FTX that was called ft x dot u-s
that was sort of regulated
but it was not regulated in the standard way for example he was not regulated by the SEC and and the regulation that I had it was not at all comparable with the regulation that you would have for a regular Exchange.
So there was an element of Regulation at least in part of it.
But again that regulation was minimal compared to what you think and exchange and in addition a broker because they’re not just an exchange they also operated as a broker
a broker should have.
And again that’s something that of course we were visiting as we speak which is who or what is it that we should have done differently what is it that we should do better going forward.
[4:53] Or our audience out there
as he said to regulated financial institution is something completely different they have to post a lot of collateral when when they have deals going on
on inside the stock exchange to usually have a central counterparty both sides have to post collateral where you cannot use your own create your own Creator tokens and stuff like that so there’s a lot
a lot more today’s it goes down to some regulations on how to have you have to do some businesses and
the authorities can send somebody in an auditor and they audit if you really
stick to those regulations and if you really really want to see an executive in a term financial service companies wet tell him such such an audit is coming and.
They can be really tough and as we said that only holds true for regulated financial institutions and it did not hold true.
For the cryptocurrencies for the crypto exchange here.
[5:57] Is the who actually regulated ft x u.s. when it was not the SEC.
Again I think what happens in the US that’s a multitude of organizations agencies that are involved in regulation.
[6:11] Some of them operate at the state level not at the federal level.
Again that is an issue that is an issue that is well-known for anyone who studies regulation in the US we understand that it’s not at all ideal.
But it is what it is an for regular institutions we found if you want anak Librium that works.
[6:31] So clearly the way these things are done should be a lot more centralized at the federal level not at the state level
but because the u.s. is obviously a decentralised country you have this sort of weird or agencies that operate at different levels
so if f 2 F DX us was partially regulated at the state level partially at the federal level clearly not ideal
but what is fundamental is at the end of the day the level of transparency the ability of.
Having an audit that reveals some of the weaknesses of the institution or their balance sheet the way they present products to customers to what extent they’re subject to certain requirements to be clear
I’m not lying about the products they offer to carry all those standards were so much weaker than the ones you would find
the typical broker or an exchange and that was the reality of how it worked.
I think we’ve all been a little bit to Lux when it came to crypto exchanges or cryptocurrencies crypto tokens in the last year’s because there was a sense.
There was a need to leave them some space to innovate
so we cannot put the same constraints as we put in the traditional institutions I always felt that was a mistake because I was always
concerned that something like this will happen or something that might be bigger than what we’ve seen so far
I assume by now Regulators have a very different view on what needs to be done with this.
[7:58] Marcus because now they realized this Marcus can be as volatile or more than regular markets and they’re large and this people who investors who lose money.
That they don’t deserve to lose money and they should be a lot more.
[8:13] It’s a latte you’re hinting at a lot of the regulations you have in your in the yes to protect the small investors like the like the people who cannot stomach losing
ten fifteen twenty thousand years yeah I would agree to that and since those institutions are not really.
Regulated that much do you think on the side of the ft x investors the investors working with them.
Did they slack a little bit on doing their due diligence there.
This is an area where I’m fascinated of how digital due diligence they must have done I mean when you hear the name some of the people who fund DirectX is even more surprising because these are all big names.
[9:00] I mean there is for example a big fun in Singapore which is a government fund which is called temasek
that has a massive amount of funds and they had invested I think the number is somewhere around 300 to 400 million dollars in ft x we just had to write off
it is very shocking to me that someone who comes from a conservative government like Singapore they
they did not have the due diligence that you respect for such a large investment because now that we know all the details there was no board.
Around ft x he was just a couple of individuals making decisions using tools
that were very primitive like an Excel spreadsheet to record some of the biggest transactions in the fun and clearly that there was no CFO.
[9:52] And this is something that it could have been known just by asking the question who’s the CFO
what is the port so it is very hard for me to understand what the duty diligent was because again to me if it’s obvious I mean I mean academic I’m not a hedge fund manager fund investor.
But you would think that the minimum set of questions you would ask it something about governance.
You cannot just trust one person that might come across as very smart or very negative you need processes I’m not a nice to me shocking that so many millions went into this.
Institution without that due diligence you’ve been.
You’ve been talking about the abort here can you tell for our audience who’s who’s mostly with b and background but can you talk a little bit about what.
[10:45] Duties what supervisory duties but bought would have had in this situation.
[10:51] I mean there are boards that work on boards that don’t work so a board doesn’t guarantee that everything is gonna work but aboard the idea is to have some checks and balances.
So if you are the CEO of a company this someone who sort of.
Looking at what you doing that that is sort of setting some objectives that is making sure that things are doing right of course as long as the Boris independent you could imagine those checks and balances would be effective.
But when you do not even have a board to meet us a sign that something is wrong
you can I’m not saying a board would have fixed everything in this case but the absence of it it just says these people wanted to have full power
on is very hard to trust any organization where there is no checks and balances where one person or a couple of people make all the decisions.
[11:39] Yeah that’s something we’ve also seen that made of right very secretive very very very block to the outside and
again I feel a similarity because they are where.
[11:52] If I remember made of correctly way too few people to manage the amount of money they claim
to be managing in their hedge fund unit you’ve already hinted at checking big transactions
on an Excel sheet which is a total no-go.
Every regulated entity even even my Tax Advisor give me some chewing just because I track some of my transactions which are very very small
on Excel sheet and what else did he see as weak points in terms of Technology there because they’ve not been built on the core system you would find in other,
exchanges that are regulated they’re approved by the regulator and data through thoroughly tested so that means even if you have an update you have to put it in a test system you have to test it and then you can put it into production.
To me the biggest issue is not quite I mean I mentioned Excel spreadsheet because it’s a little bit funny but it’s not so much about the actual technology because one can do wonders with bad technology
I think this is the lack of basic Financial
principles to run the business in other words again the lack of accountability transparency the lack of information about where the funds are.
[13:20] You can even today or when people are trying to figure out what happened to this billions billions of dollars it is very unclear it is very unclear where the billions of dollars went.
And I get the impression I can I do obviously don’t have all the details I get the impression that these people were running a business.
What do they assume because their ideas are so good the pile of money will always grow
and because the pile of money will always grow even if I lose track of a few millions or billions I’ll have enough to pay back whenever someone asks for it can that does a little bit the impression it just feels
this is a no-brainer we always going to be bigger will always going to grow the pie
so it doesn’t matter if we lose a few Millions here and there whether I give a donation to someone whether I lend money to someone else at the end of the day we just.
We just have so much cash that it doesn’t matter now of course that that is a really bad assumption unexposed it turned out to be a big disaster.
Because there were holes in the system that according to what we know today they were these people were not aware of.
I’m because they were not aware of they kept betting their house on the same proposals and at the end of the day of course the whole became so big that they couldn’t function anymore.
[14:36] Yeah I know I heard some stories from people working in an unregulated software and then when they shifted to regulated software that I uncovered a lot of problems.
D hear some stories when you’re financial services consultant there and you’ve been talking about.
[14:57] D lending there and the hedge fund right now it looks like it was very unclear between the.
FTX Deeds change the broker and their hedge fund called I am a deer research.
[15:17] It’s also so far as I know unclear how much money is left in this fund.
Is that clear to everyone including to themselves I mean of course there was a little bit of a sort of cows at the time were
where some bagman feet resigned and its new CEO had to take cover because there was this.
Sort of rumors on some observations that some money was sort of disappearing.
I mean some money was hundreds of millions of dollars and it wasn’t clear whether that was the new Administration trying to protect some of this money.
Or someone just stealing that money because they had access to it
so I don’t think there’s an answer to that I think that they must be some information in the hands of the new CEO but I’m sure they don’t want to reveal it because I doing all the investigation but clearly what I mean what happened between ft x and alibied that research.
[16:11] It’s just a classic case of not keeping that the right Chinese wall between the two businesses,
clearly both businesses were run by the same people that trying to deny it as I know I didn’t know this or that
but all the evidence points to the direction that all these different institutions were just for the sake of sort of theater just to pretend that they had these different functions
in reality as I said before to me this looks like a pile of money
they play with it and some of this money was not there that was their customers of course and because they had the assumption that it will always grow.
That they fell superhuman they thought it doesn’t matter it doesn’t matter how many mistakes we made here and there but they will always be more
to pay back our customers again that that sounds a little bit crazy when I say like this but that’s to me what this business look like.
[17:04] I just had some talking points when you’ve been talking ended just need to write them down first we should again
okay pick up the people who don’t have any background on financial regulation would you refer to Chinese wall is not like a brick-and-mortar wall it’s actually
it is a way of regulating for example if you have a big Investment Bank and there’s Neman a banker talking to a Trader a look company is going to buy company be pretty soon and you know company a the value goes down Company B the value goes up so the trader can establish their positions
that may have been.
[17:41] A key in the past but at least since the 1990s I do believe that’s completely forbidden and the regulation enforced their that they cannot talk to each other about those things that are called Chinese walls
so if you hear Chinese walls.
Could be something different than a brick-and-mortar wall and I also read once that there is a there’s a saying that recessions uncover what orders it would others don’t.
[18:13] I realize that the the downhill race of the crypto.
Kern’s these triggered the ft x collapse when understood when understanding I took from it with that a lot.
Of those positions.
Maybe in one of the legal entities we are now pretty sure that was a big mix-up have been collateralized with
either dos cryptocurrencies all with their own FTX tokens do you believe that there was a lot of.
Losses like trading losses due to those downturns that I one point just made the House of Cards collapsed.
[18:56] Me for sure I mean these are I mean this world has been running on the idea of
it can all these stockings I’m gonna go up in value always there can obviously this many tokens out there but there’s sort of a general belief.
That this sector was on his way up not every talking but the majority of them any particular summon some people believe more in some than in others
people would use leverage people will borrow to invest in this market because it was such a great deal and of course we know that it work for a few years when the price of most tokens was going up
and then the other thing that was happening which again if you understand finals it’s a little bit funny although not finding this case more depressing which is a lot of these tokens that had these valuations that were meaningless.
Meaningless in the sense that lots of tokens have been issued.
This is a market where there are very very few transactions but let’s say in transaction is done at a hundred dollars per token.
[19:57] People will say well hundred dollars times the amount of tokens this Market is worth 3 billion.
[20:04] But this is not true this Market is only worth three billion is someone can buy all of the tokens at that price but that was not true.
The trade was always so marginal compared to the volume of tokens but then people truly believe the story and they started using this document for collateral.
[20:22] So here it is let me some money I’m gonna give you these great tokens are worth $100 but but they were not the problem is everyone was doing the same thing
so then you have this sort of network of Trades which are all related.
Which the moment a couple of these people start falling apart the whole thing falls apart.
Because if I ask you back for for the payment because your collateral is worthless you have to ask someone else who’s in the same situation as you are and it’s just not going to work and of course the moment we see that people aren’t gonna panic.
So maybe maybe some of these tokens are worth something I’m not sure but let’s say maybe but in a moment of panic the value of these things then to go to zero very fast
so again that’s what we seen not just in this case we saw it we Tara Luna the stable coin we’ve seen it in other exchanges we might see a little bit more of these in other exchanges I don’t think we’ve done I think
did this is still a lot of these Heating in other places maybe some people were a little bit better they did not have such a such a wild position as these guys did.
But I have no doubt that there are other places where there’s people who are insolvent but we haven’t seen it yet.
[21:35] I also do believe that we will
see a few more may be small scale maybe big scale insolvencies implosions however you want to call it in the crypto space
until the point where the global economy gets out of the recession gets out of the corona of the supply chain Funk that we are now in the increasing inflation and when
the economy is picking up most of the crypto place that will be still standing I personally do believe.
Will be good but until then we may see a few more falling out.
But remember I’m a not to not to disagree too much Rodriguez that when these when these stockings were launched in 2008 with Bitcoin 2009 being the first one
the main main argument was these are tokens that will.
[22:30] Sort of compete with a traditional system with the traditional currencies
in particular in a financial crisis this will be the place to go in particular when there is inflation these are the tokens that will give you the best return so here we are in a crisis.
With inflation and what do we see this Market disappearing in front of us
so I mean I find that to be very revealing when somebody tells you a narrative that says these are the tokens that will work when there is inflation because central banks are all crazy they’re causing inflation
but these are the ways to protect your purchasing power another we have inflation these things collapse in value.
Again that that to me is a red flag and really big red flag because when somebody promises me a narrative and the narrative literally turns around and delivers the opposite outcome then I’m not sure.
[23:28] Whatever happens with inflation in the future I’m not sure many of these tokens will stay alive I just I have a lot less confident that I had before.
[23:37] Yeah as Trumpeter said the coach hour for the crypto Market I would say.
[23:43] Yeah very cold very cold and it can you give us a little bit of your personal opinion what is happening right now as we speak and we recording this on the 12th of December so approximately two weeks,
before this is actually going to be published what is happening right now.
[24:03] But nothing with respect to FTX we’re in a state of waiting waiting for information to come out again just a process of bankruptcy that’s going to take forever to be resolved.
I think over the next maybe months maybe years will find out more about how many funds that are available.
Then slowly those funds will be distributed to some investors but again that’s going to take years to happen and in the meantime the rest of the market I think is holding but in a very precarious way
because again we’ve seen a couple of other small exchanges falling block file just became insolvent a few days or
couple of days ago there’s a lot of noise about other some big players the Some Noise about by knows that some noise about.
Coinbase the Some Noise about tether as always.
So again this that there’s a little bit of noise here and there that I mean I wouldn’t be surprised if some of these noise turns into something worse.
Over the coming weeks or months.
Or maybe not or maybe they survive because the losses are a smaller I can I don’t know because there’s no transparency so I can only try to guess by looking at their words their body language when someone doesn’t want to do an audit
I’m suspicious by Nature if you don’t want to show me the assets you have I’m suspicious when I see the type of statements all of these players buying instead they’re publish
they look very suspicious to me it would be very easy for them to do better.
[25:33] We thought putting any custom their business there’s zero cost on being more open to zero so if they don’t do it there must be a reason that that’s the only thing I can think of now how bad that is that reason how big is the whole I don’t know.
But is there a hole someone here is this a risk that they don’t want to share with the rest of the world of course there is that I have no doubt about it.
[25:55] I would also add from my personal.
Background and basically what is now happening there is a lot of lawyers and a lot of forensic investigators coming into what is left of the companies and there will be a lot of work for those people but.
[26:14] I could tell you a secret that Tony right.
If ever some of those forensic peoples are turning to criminals they will be masterminds they have a more dire he’s finding many criminals and they really really good at their job and what they’re doing and if there’s money to be tracked
Dave will track it but he’d need time you need a lot of time to actually do that.
Going a little bit into the lookout with we’ve already talked there’s there’s a lot of noise out here and I’ve made the guess when the recession is over and the players are still here on the market they will survive until then
there’s a 50/50 chance of companies going bankrupt company surviving maybe even less end.
[27:01] I would like to take a look with you a little bit into the future what we learned what it means for the crypto world because
I personally do believe we will not go on as to economists once Road financial markets are defined.
By crashes by implosions.
By trouble and maybe the same will hold true for the crypto world.
I totally believe that we will see a lot more of the crypto World being regulated.
Slightly less or the same as the financial world at one point in the future.
I’m very sure there’s a lot of you better employees and a lot of employees of US senators and members of the House.
[27:54] That I currently writing a lot of really really big regulations for crypto.
Yeah I think that’s the feature but when you start spelling out what that future looks like for crypto I think is not what the crypto World wants and that’s I think that’s a big issue this is what I have in mind
in particular if you take Europe what regulation I think is a lot faster and smarter
because the u.s. is a complex world for regulation you take Europe there’s a new initiative called Mica which is sort of regulating a lot of descriptor World stable coins and things like that it takes.
In my view a very sensible approach which is to say look a lot of these things look like things that we know we know what hedge fund to look like we know what exchanges look like we know that what the equivalent of a stable coin is in the regular world not in the crypto world
so if you want to do this you’re going to have to follow exactly the same rules exactly there’s no exception now.
That is to me a big issue because it’s sort of says to decrypt the world there’s certain things you won’t be able to do.
[29:04] For example it is very difficult to say I’m going to right now I’m going to run a financial institution which is hundred percent decentralized.
What is this not a centralized entity which is accountable and it sort of liable for whatever they’re doing that is never going to work in financial.
So that rules out part of the of the crypto world the pure decentralized Finance world is sort of rule out by definition and I think there’s a few instances like these were where the regular Financial
institutions if you try to apply the same regulation to the crypto world.
Some of the crypt ideas will sort of disappear again the not possible anymore so I see more regulation but I think it’s not as easy as saying
we’re going to see more regulation therefore we just going to see the same crypto environment we see today but with a lot of regulators around I think we’re going to move into a direction which is we’re going to see things that look a lot like the regular institutions.
And some of the crypto world will not fit those definitions and they will only exist probably offshore data won’t be able to be registered
in the European Union therefore that’s a very different proposition than what the proponents of these tokens believe it can be done.
[30:21] DC a way for making a smart regulation that can not completely.
Teal the Innovative power of the crypto world.
Yes I know meaning yes I can I can see a way of doing a smart regulation the question is how do we Define the Innovative power does the big question
and so far he hasn’t been defined well let the crypto World themselves have not articulated
what are the True Value they add to financial Market let’s be honest the crypto world has been driven by the speculative forces of investors who thought I could get rich very fast by buying these tokens.
That is the driving force of the world if you ask what is the value of many of these Innovations call it stable coins call is decentralized finance call it crypto currency exchanges.
It is not obvious it is not obvious to me.
What is the value they add that then it’s very hard to talk about Innovation when you don’t see the additional value so again
to me that the tricky part is for the crypto world first to the articulate a value proposition that then The Regulators could say okay I understand so I’m going to have a compromise here
because of what you are doing to society I’m going to adapt my regulations to you I don’t think that’s the conversation we’re having.
[31:48] I think the conversation we’re having is you doing the same thing as everyone else you just give it a different name.
[31:54] You use different processes because you want to hide and in some cases be fraudulent.
[31:59] The regulator says I’m going to I’m not going to allow you to do this because I don’t see the additional value in trying to tweak the regulation to what you doing
yeah I also see that yes the value-added what would they really innovate if they can really show it I’m very sure there will be a lot of
people employed by the European Union and the u.s. government listening and
accommodate that but I do believe otherwise it will be more or less Financial Service regulations and lighter or me maybe even a heavy away and the only Innovation you can do as he said
is outside of the regulated
markets like North America like the European Union and but by the way it when you said yes I know you make me smile because in Germany we do have a very good word for this yeah and nine yes or no combined as Ying,
haha that’s good that’s good okay I’m Antonio.
[33:02] Thank you very much for your time that was everything I would like to bother you with maybe we get the opportunity to get together.
Anytime the next year 2023 and hopefully have a discussion on what has been going on with FTX with the crypto world since of course anytime anytime great so.
It’s just wishing our audience merry Christmas happy holidays Happy New Year for Vine afternoon and good watch you want to contribute in another language.
Or me yeah Philippe Philippe maybe data felices fiestas para Todo El Mundo.
Muchas gracias thank you very much my pleasure thank you have a good day bye bye.
That’s all folks find more news streams event.
Interviews at www.startrekphase2.de Ohio remember.
[34:03] Music.
