How To Make The Most Out Of Your Podcast Guesting, with Jason Cercone

John Ball: 00:00:00

Welcome to Podfluence, the podcast for business coaches and

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speakers looking to build influence and generate business through podcasts.

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This week I am joined by another expert in the world of podcasting.

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Someone who's show I have listened to you many times and I've learned

John Ball: 00:00:17

a lot from this guy, and so it was a real pleasure to have him on the show.

John Ball: 00:00:20

In fact, when we did a pre-interview chat sometime back.

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We probably could have kept talking all day because we just really collected

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and we had so much in common, and we talk about a lot of the same things.

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We have different perspectives on some things, and there's a

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lot that we definitely agree on.

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And maybe just describe things in some slightly different ways.

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In this episode, I'm speaking to Jason Cercone, host of Evolution of Brand

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and Pod Theory two podcasts that I have very much enjoyed as a listener.

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In our conversation, we're gonna answer questions like, is starting

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a podcast the best next step for you, your business and brand?

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Or is there another path that we could recommend instead?

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Here's a hint, there's another path.

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Also, the things that people commonly get wrong when they are appearing on

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other people's podcasts, that could be damaging your business growth

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rather than contributing to it.

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We even get onto things like what makes people tune out of the conversation or

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the episode that you might be appearing on and what the biggest value of

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podcasting has been for Jason, and I would say for myself as well, which we

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didn't know was there when we started.

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You're gonna get a lot of value in this particular episode.

John Ball: 00:01:45

If you are not already subscribed to Podfluence, do make sure you hit that

John Ball: 00:01:50

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reviews, definitely very welcome.

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in a future episode of the show.

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But right now it is time to prick up your ears as we get

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into this episode of Podfluence.

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Welcome to the show.

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I am very happy to be joined in my virtual studio by someone who

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I have listened to many times.

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And I'm very happy to be getting to speech in person.

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We have chatted a little while before, but he has a lot of great

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knowledge around podcasting.

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He's been doing this a while as well.

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He is an absolute pro in the industry and you're gonna love what he has

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to say about podcast guesting.

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So let me properly welcome to the show, Jason

Jason Cercone: 00:03:11

Sarone.

Jason Cercone: 00:03:13

Johnny, how you?

Jason Cercone: 00:03:13

Bye my friend.

Jason Cercone: 00:03:14

Great to be here with you.

John Ball: 00:03:16

I'm very happy to be speaking to you and you are someone, I'm happy

John Ball: 00:03:19

to say I've learned some pretty cool stuff from you, Jason, and and I've

John Ball: 00:03:21

been enjoying following your show.

John Ball: 00:03:23

So you host at the moment you host the Evolution of Brand.

John Ball: 00:03:26

That's your podcast now, but you had a show before that as well.

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I seem to remember listening to you on a different show before that too.

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And so you've been doing podcasting Go well.

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When did you get into the

Jason Cercone: 00:03:35

podcasting?

Jason Cercone: 00:03:37

Well, podcasting began for me all the way back in 2015 when podcasting

Jason Cercone: 00:03:42

was starting to come of age.

Jason Cercone: 00:03:44

I think it was, I think to some degree we're still coming

Jason Cercone: 00:03:47

into our own in this space.

Jason Cercone: 00:03:50

But 2015 was when I first took my leap in and started my first show with my

Jason Cercone: 00:03:56

best friend, and we had a lot of fun with it, but what it, what the purpose

Jason Cercone: 00:03:59

it served for me was that it really re rekindled my passion for radio.

Jason Cercone: 00:04:05

I did a radio show back in college back in the early two thousands,

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and I absolutely loved it.

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And then I lightly looked into pursuing it as a career once college

Jason Cercone: 00:04:16

ended, but it didn't pan out.

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And then lo and behold, this podcasting phenomenon hit the world

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and I realized that this put me right back on the track that I wanted to

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be on at an earlier stage in life.

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So started that in 2015, did a few different, over the years helped

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some other people launch their shows and worked on the production end,

Jason Cercone: 00:04:38

the marketing end, and pretty much every capacity that you can imagine.

Jason Cercone: 00:04:43

And then the show that you were referring to, pod theory was something

Jason Cercone: 00:04:46

that I launched during the pandemic, that I wanted to start talking more

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to podcasters about doing podcasts better, because I realize that there

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is a lot happening in this space and there's a lot of people that walk

Jason Cercone: 00:05:01

away from their podcast way too soon.

Jason Cercone: 00:05:04

and if there's anything that I could do to help prevent that, because I feel that

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this is such a powerful medium to express yourself, to make powerful connections

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and build very lucrative relationships.

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And if you do it right, and so many people don't take the time to

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really develop the fundamentals to.

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So Pod Theory served that purpose for a while, and at the same time

Jason Cercone: 00:05:29

I was planning evolution of Brand.

Jason Cercone: 00:05:31

I spent just about a year planning what I wanted that podcast to be, cuz in

Jason Cercone: 00:05:37

essence what it was, was this amalgam of all of my podcast experience and some of

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the inspiration that I drew from fellow podcasters, I wanted to make sure that

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I was putting the most quality product together and delivering that to the world.

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And that's what's been happening.

Jason Cercone: 00:05:52

And the show has been going fantastic since it's launched in October of 2021.

Jason Cercone: 00:05:57

Demand to be on the show because the conversations are very engrossing,

Jason Cercone: 00:06:01

has been through the roof, and it's been a, it's been a blast.

Jason Cercone: 00:06:04

And pod theory I'll drop a little piece of breaking news there

Jason Cercone: 00:06:09

probably because I'm crazy.

Jason Cercone: 00:06:11

As if I don't have enough on my plate already, I'm probably going to be doing

Jason Cercone: 00:06:14

a rebrand on pod theory in the very near future and taking it it very, I wanna say,

Jason Cercone: 00:06:21

I don't wanna think back to basics, but we're gonna get real granular with some

Jason Cercone: 00:06:25

of these skill sets that podcasters need.

Jason Cercone: 00:06:28

And the whole theme is gonna be around disrupting the audio platform.

Jason Cercone: 00:06:34

So stay tuned.

John Ball: 00:06:34

I like the sound of that.

John Ball: 00:06:36

Jason and I will be definitely staying tuned to that.

John Ball: 00:06:39

And one of the big themes of my show is around building influence.

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And I think podcasts are such a great way to do that.

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It's one of the reasons why I'm focusing the show much more in

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building influence through podcasting.

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But I wonder who for you, has been an influence either in podcasting or not,

John Ball: 00:06:58

but in terms of the direction of your life or someone who's inspired you in

John Ball: 00:07:02

you in the directions you've taken?

Jason Cercone: 00:07:05

Well with podcasting, there's been a lot of shows that

Jason Cercone: 00:07:09

I've listened to, so to pinpoint anybody specific would be difficult

Jason Cercone: 00:07:13

because I took a year and a half after I had started my first podcast

Jason Cercone: 00:07:18

and we ran that as far as we could.

Jason Cercone: 00:07:20

I started a second podcast and probably about 20 episodes into that I realized

Jason Cercone: 00:07:24

that this is something I really want to do, but I don't want to do it poorly.

Jason Cercone: 00:07:30

I really want to get good at this.

Jason Cercone: 00:07:33

I made the decision to shut that podcast down.

Jason Cercone: 00:07:36

I felt that I had gained some experience, but I really wanted to just take time to

Jason Cercone: 00:07:40

develop more of a voice and see what others were doing.

Jason Cercone: 00:07:43

So I started listening to podcasts all the time, and for a year and a

Jason Cercone: 00:07:48

half, I did no production of my own.

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I just studied and listened to what other podcasters were doing.

Jason Cercone: 00:07:53

I listened to TV and radio personalities in Pittsburgh where I'm located and

Jason Cercone: 00:08:00

in other parts of the world, and really just put on an analytical cap.

Jason Cercone: 00:08:05

And looked at what I could do to emulate some of these great

Jason Cercone: 00:08:09

personalities and these great voices.

Jason Cercone: 00:08:11

I can give credit to a couple specifically, this name may not resonate

Jason Cercone: 00:08:16

with many of your listeners, but there's a sports broadcaster here in Pittsburgh

Jason Cercone: 00:08:20

by the name of Mark Madden, and he is a very real gritty he plays a heel persona.

Jason Cercone: 00:08:29

If there's any wrestling fans out there, like he really goes on air to, in

Jason Cercone: 00:08:35

essence, piss off the audience, but he's doing it from the role of a character.

Jason Cercone: 00:08:40

And I had followed him.

Jason Cercone: 00:08:41

I learned about him back when I was a wrestling fan back in the early

Jason Cercone: 00:08:44

two thousands when he was in World Championship wrestling as an announcer.

Jason Cercone: 00:08:47

And then when I moved to Pittsburgh, I heard him on the radio.

Jason Cercone: 00:08:49

I'm like, oh, this is so cool.

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And really been listening to him ever since.

Jason Cercone: 00:08:53

But the way that he talks to, to, to his audience, the way he delivers his

Jason Cercone: 00:08:57

message, the way that he communicates, there was just something about the way he

Jason Cercone: 00:09:00

did that that really resonated with me.

Jason Cercone: 00:09:04

So I was constantly listening to how he delivered his questions when he

Jason Cercone: 00:09:09

was giving an interview, and then how would he, how he would interact

Jason Cercone: 00:09:12

with fans when they would call in.

Jason Cercone: 00:09:14

So I drew a lot of inspiration from him On the podcasting side, I owe

Jason Cercone: 00:09:19

a big thank you to John Lee Dumas.

Jason Cercone: 00:09:21

Entrepreneurs on Fire Hit I liked the format of that show and when, as

Jason Cercone: 00:09:26

I was developing Evolution of Brand, when I was listening to different

Jason Cercone: 00:09:29

podcasts, I was listening to how.

Jason Cercone: 00:09:32

He structured his show and my favorite element was the fact that he got

Jason Cercone: 00:09:37

to the value as fast as possible.

Jason Cercone: 00:09:40

Right.

Jason Cercone: 00:09:40

And I think that's one thing I've noticed in the podcasting space is some

Jason Cercone: 00:09:44

people, they love to hear themselves talk and there's nothing wrong with that.

Jason Cercone: 00:09:49

But I feel that if you are presenting a guest that has a

Jason Cercone: 00:09:54

certain level of expertise, that's what people are showing up for.

Jason Cercone: 00:09:58

So they don't need to have a three minute intro with a song tied to it

Jason Cercone: 00:10:04

that's gonna talk about all these things.

Jason Cercone: 00:10:05

And then a 10 minute monologue from the host about A, B, C, and D before

Jason Cercone: 00:10:10

we ever get to the actual interview.

Jason Cercone: 00:10:13

And what I loved about that, it was, it was just, here's

Jason Cercone: 00:10:16

who you're gonna hear today.

Jason Cercone: 00:10:17

This is what we're talking about.

Jason Cercone: 00:10:19

We're gonna get to that after a quick word from the sponsors Quick 32nd ad,

Jason Cercone: 00:10:23

we're into the value of the show quickly.

Jason Cercone: 00:10:25

And that's what I, I was like, I want my.

Jason Cercone: 00:10:27

To have that same type of feel.

Jason Cercone: 00:10:29

So I pretty much built the format the exact same way with a quick intro to

Jason Cercone: 00:10:32

set the table, quick add, and we're into the value as fast as possible.

Jason Cercone: 00:10:37

So to specifically pinpoint two people that have helped me in my

Jason Cercone: 00:10:41

journey, I will name those two, but the list goes on and on.

John Ball: 00:10:45

that's excellent.

John Ball: 00:10:46

And what I wondering, you've gone really deep with with your research, what you're

John Ball: 00:10:51

saying, and do you find that there are distinctions to be made that are very

John Ball: 00:10:56

specific to podcasting and how you show up and how you present yourself and

John Ball: 00:11:01

maybe even in interviewing as well?

John Ball: 00:11:03

That what we define everywhere else?

Jason Cercone: 00:11:07

I think there is a big disparity from the people that really

Jason Cercone: 00:11:13

take this seriously to the people that just want to show up and talk

Jason Cercone: 00:11:17

for a little bit about what they do.

Jason Cercone: 00:11:19

And for me, I look at it for the whole process and maybe there's a little

Jason Cercone: 00:11:24

bit of bias in me because I'm also a podcaster, so I'm thinking on both ends.

Jason Cercone: 00:11:29

When I'm a guest on a show, I know what the host wants to accomplish by the

Jason Cercone: 00:11:34

piece of content that we're creating, and that's something that's going to

Jason Cercone: 00:11:37

be impactful and compelling, and when the audience hears it, they can really

Jason Cercone: 00:11:41

sink their teeth into it because what happens when they get that type of

Jason Cercone: 00:11:46

reaction and response from the audience is they want to come back for more.

Jason Cercone: 00:11:51

Perhaps this is the first episode of your show, Johnny, that somebody finds,

Jason Cercone: 00:11:56

hopefully they're feeling something in the chemistry of our conversation

Jason Cercone: 00:12:00

and everything we're talking about that makes them say, Hmm, wonder what

Jason Cercone: 00:12:03

else is in the content catalog that I can really dive into and learn.

Jason Cercone: 00:12:08

So they'll start to peruse your past episodes.

Jason Cercone: 00:12:10

They'll subscribe so they don't miss the next release, and

Jason Cercone: 00:12:13

that's really the objective.

Jason Cercone: 00:12:14

When it comes down to the nuts and bolts of it.

Jason Cercone: 00:12:17

Podcasters want to grow and I feel that guests need to treat that

Jason Cercone: 00:12:24

type of approach with respect.

Jason Cercone: 00:12:28

because as a podcaster you are asking someone that has expertise on a

Jason Cercone: 00:12:32

certain subject that you know your audience will respond to, to take

Jason Cercone: 00:12:35

their time to come on and really talk about that area of expertise.

Jason Cercone: 00:12:40

And in doing that, if you do it the right way, you can truly establish

Jason Cercone: 00:12:45

yourself as an authority that that audience is gonna wanna learn more from.

Jason Cercone: 00:12:51

But some people show up to podcasts and just go into sales mode.

Jason Cercone: 00:12:56

They feel like they need to use that platform to promote their book, to promote

Jason Cercone: 00:13:02

their product, to promote their course, and not realizing that in showing up with

Jason Cercone: 00:13:09

a valuable message to say and a story to tell, that's gonna do the selling for you.

Jason Cercone: 00:13:16

You don't have to make it into an infomercial.

Jason Cercone: 00:13:18

You just show up and you have a great conversation with the host.

Jason Cercone: 00:13:22

You talk about the areas of expertise that clearly you're passionate about and

Jason Cercone: 00:13:26

you can say a lot of great things about.

Jason Cercone: 00:13:29

And in doing that, the audience will respond to say, I really like that person.

Jason Cercone: 00:13:33

I wanna know more about what they do and how they can help

Jason Cercone: 00:13:35

me make a transformation in my.

Jason Cercone: 00:13:39

, or maybe they won't, and that's fine because you don't resonate with everyone.

Jason Cercone: 00:13:42

It's impossible to resonate with 100% of the audience.

Jason Cercone: 00:13:46

But if you're doing your job properly and you treat this platform with

Jason Cercone: 00:13:49

respect, you can show up and really make a positive impact that's

Jason Cercone: 00:13:54

going to be heard on a worldwide scale because podcasts are global.

Jason Cercone: 00:13:59

So you really have great opportunities to open up the doors for networking

Jason Cercone: 00:14:03

opportunities, for business opportunities, and to truly establish

Jason Cercone: 00:14:06

yourself as a trusted resource that people wanna learn more from.

John Ball: 00:14:10

Yeah.

John Ball: 00:14:10

This is something that I've been writing about and thinking about as well, and

John Ball: 00:14:13

I know we had a bit of a chat a while back and I think we could have gone

John Ball: 00:14:16

on talking all day probably because we were, we were going going deep.

John Ball: 00:14:20

Cause I really, but, but yeah, it was one of the things that came

John Ball: 00:14:23

up to me and I ended up writing about was that there are, Said No.

John Ball: 00:14:27

Go podcast.

John Ball: 00:14:28

Go podcast would be great.

John Ball: 00:14:29

You do.

John Ball: 00:14:29

It's promote your business or your book and it maybe isn't gonna be great for

John Ball: 00:14:33

everybody for some of the reasons you were just saying and perhaps a few more

John Ball: 00:14:36

besides like, if you go on there and you really can't present yourself well or you

John Ball: 00:14:40

are just purely transactional about it.

John Ball: 00:14:42

Or you go on there and you're delivering a TED talk, you're not really listening to

John Ball: 00:14:45

the host or really properly engaging and people think, oh, does that really happen?

John Ball: 00:14:49

Yeah, it really happens.

John Ball: 00:14:50

That's not gonna do you any favors in the long run.

John Ball: 00:14:53

I mean, for starters, you may not get aired.

John Ball: 00:14:55

Your episode may not get aired for that very reason, and if it does,

John Ball: 00:15:00

It may not do you any favors when it's out there in the world as well.

John Ball: 00:15:03

The whole point of this is to have materials that are

John Ball: 00:15:06

reflecting your message.

John Ball: 00:15:08

Something about you having people want to follow you and maybe wanting to

John Ball: 00:15:12

check out your book or your own show, or wherever it is you've got to offer.

John Ball: 00:15:16

But if you can't actually present yourself well on the show and you don't

John Ball: 00:15:21

have the engagement, or you don't even particularly care about the person

John Ball: 00:15:24

you're speaking to it's gonna be hard.

Jason Cercone: 00:15:27

100% correct.

Jason Cercone: 00:15:28

And I think what people fail to think about when they come at

Jason Cercone: 00:15:32

this from the guest perspective is the listener experience.

Jason Cercone: 00:15:36

And you have to take a minute to put yourself in the listener's

Jason Cercone: 00:15:38

shoes and say, is this something that I would want to listen to?

Jason Cercone: 00:15:42

If I tuned in to this podcast and I click the play button and someone just

Jason Cercone: 00:15:46

instantly started selling me something and didn't stop, would I keep listening to.

Jason Cercone: 00:15:53

Chances are no, because the good thing about commercials is they end,

Jason Cercone: 00:15:58

you can get a lot of value from them, and the people that do it well know

Jason Cercone: 00:16:02

how to grab your attention and make you aware of a product to the point

Jason Cercone: 00:16:05

that you keep it front of mind when it's time to make a buying decision.

Jason Cercone: 00:16:09

But it ends and it gets back to what you want to hear, the reason you tuned in.

Jason Cercone: 00:16:15

And more than likely, people tune into a podcast because A, they're an

Jason Cercone: 00:16:19

avid listener of the show and they've.

Jason Cercone: 00:16:21

Transform themselves into an advocate and will listen to every

Jason Cercone: 00:16:24

piece of content that comes out.

Jason Cercone: 00:16:26

Or B, they're searching for a specific answer.

Jason Cercone: 00:16:30

And whether they do it through Google, they find it on social media, they

Jason Cercone: 00:16:33

get a recommendation from a friend.

Jason Cercone: 00:16:35

The title of the show is more than likely going to grab somebody to the

Jason Cercone: 00:16:40

point they click play and listen.

Jason Cercone: 00:16:41

So if it's not being delivered after they click play, what they

Jason Cercone: 00:16:44

want to hear, they tune out.

Jason Cercone: 00:16:46

So from the guest perspective, if you come at it thinking, What do I want

Jason Cercone: 00:16:51

the listener to hear when they hear me?

Jason Cercone: 00:16:53

It's not a sales pitch, it's not an infomercial.

Jason Cercone: 00:16:58

It's value.

Jason Cercone: 00:16:59

It's a compelling story.

Jason Cercone: 00:17:01

It's something they can relate to.

Jason Cercone: 00:17:03

When you do that, you set yourself up for people to stay tuned in to listen through

Jason Cercone: 00:17:08

your whole interview, and then when you get to the end of your conversation

Jason Cercone: 00:17:11

with the host, then you can point them to where you want them to come next,

Jason Cercone: 00:17:16

which should be your website, because that's introducing them to your world

Jason Cercone: 00:17:20

and giving them an opportunity to learn more about what you do and how you can.

Jason Cercone: 00:17:25

Yeah,

John Ball: 00:17:26

and I take the perspective that really anyone who has a personal

John Ball: 00:17:31

brand, business coaches and speakers and authors and course creators and

John Ball: 00:17:34

likes that and more precise, should be thinking about podcasting, at least as

John Ball: 00:17:38

a guest, if not having their own show.

John Ball: 00:17:40

Would you agree with that or do you have some different thoughts?

Jason Cercone: 00:17:44

No I agree 100%.

Jason Cercone: 00:17:45

In fact, I spend some time talking people out of starting their own podcast.

Jason Cercone: 00:17:51

because I and I shouldn't.

Jason Cercone: 00:17:52

And let me put the caveat on that.

Jason Cercone: 00:17:55

So if you're in the mindset of wanting to start a podcast, that's fine.

Jason Cercone: 00:17:59

And I think a lot of people believe that you have to have your own podcast

Jason Cercone: 00:18:02

to be successful in this space, right?

Jason Cercone: 00:18:05

And that's not the case because I know plenty of people that simply

Jason Cercone: 00:18:09

build their brand by being a powerful, valuable guest on shows that align with

Jason Cercone: 00:18:16

their mission, message, and objective.

Jason Cercone: 00:18:19

and when you find the right shows to make a guest appearance on you, again,

Jason Cercone: 00:18:24

like I said before, open up this world of opportunities to, well to bring all

Jason Cercone: 00:18:29

of these new people into your world.

Jason Cercone: 00:18:32

And the folks that are doing this well are really seeing gains for their

Jason Cercone: 00:18:37

personal brand and for their overall business and company, whatever industry

Jason Cercone: 00:18:42

and niche they have themselves playing.

Jason Cercone: 00:18:45

So I tell people, listen, if you wanna start a podcast, just know upfront

Jason Cercone: 00:18:51

there's a lot of work involved.

Jason Cercone: 00:18:53

So if you have a team to help you do it, that's great.

Jason Cercone: 00:18:55

If you are flying solo, here's what you need to understand about

Jason Cercone: 00:18:59

this process and how to truly make a powerful podcast come to life.

Jason Cercone: 00:19:04

And if you don't have time, it's not the best move to start a podcast.

Jason Cercone: 00:19:09

Now, the better way to proceed is to get your feet.

Jason Cercone: 00:19:13

By being a guest on the right shows.

Jason Cercone: 00:19:17

In doing that, you build your brand, you develop your voice, you get

Jason Cercone: 00:19:22

comfortable on the microphone, and you learn more about your brand story

Jason Cercone: 00:19:27

and how to tell it in a compelling fashion that people will resonate with.

Jason Cercone: 00:19:32

Yeah.

Jason Cercone: 00:19:32

As you proceed with that, then you can make the decision in

Jason Cercone: 00:19:36

saying, well, this is a lot of fun.

Jason Cercone: 00:19:38

I'd love to have my own show.

Jason Cercone: 00:19:39

Now you have some experience under your belt,.

Jason Cercone: 00:19:42

and it makes the process a little bit easier and you can understand

Jason Cercone: 00:19:46

what type of buy-in is needed to make your podcast take off.

Jason Cercone: 00:19:51

So I always point people to guesting first because there's so much to be

Jason Cercone: 00:19:55

gained from this that you can start your own show if you want to down

Jason Cercone: 00:20:00

the road, but you get that important experience and take the practice swings

Jason Cercone: 00:20:05

that help get you prepared to do this.

Jason Cercone: 00:20:09

and once you do that, then you could really make things take off.

Jason Cercone: 00:20:13

Yeah.

John Ball: 00:20:13

I wish I'd have that advice when I first started podcasting.

John Ball: 00:20:16

Oh, me too.

John Ball: 00:20:16

Because, because looking back, I, I think it would've made a big difference.

John Ball: 00:20:20

Instead, I did my learning curve as a host, which may you feel me?

John Ball: 00:20:23

Yes.

John Ball: 00:20:24

It similar experience for you.

John Ball: 00:20:25

I, I wonder that, I'm curious what kind of benefits you have

John Ball: 00:20:30

personally and professionally experienced because of podcasting.

Jason Cercone: 00:20:34

Without question, the biggest.

Jason Cercone: 00:20:37

Gain from podcasting.

Jason Cercone: 00:20:39

It's the networking element that's, that's baked into this whole process.

Jason Cercone: 00:20:45

I've made so many powerful connections that ha they've either become friends,

Jason Cercone: 00:20:51

colleagues, they've pointed me towards business, or they've become clients.

Jason Cercone: 00:20:57

Just from having these powerful conversations and approaching the

Jason Cercone: 00:21:00

medium with respect and doing it right.

Jason Cercone: 00:21:03

I don't treat any of these opportunities like transactions.

Jason Cercone: 00:21:07

Yeah.

Jason Cercone: 00:21:07

And I don't discriminate a podcast because it doesn't have enough

Jason Cercone: 00:21:11

listeners, or the audience just isn't big enough for my time.

Jason Cercone: 00:21:15

Uh, the hell if that.

Jason Cercone: 00:21:16

I will talk to anybody at any time about this subject because I know exactly what

Jason Cercone: 00:21:22

you are looking to build as a guest, or I'm sorry, as a host on a podcast, and if

Jason Cercone: 00:21:28

I can contribute my expertise to help you build that content portfolio, I am all

Jason Cercone: 00:21:32

in every chip to the middle of the table.

Jason Cercone: 00:21:35

And I feel like more people need to start thinking of it on that

Jason Cercone: 00:21:39

level because the gains that can come your way are tremendous.

Jason Cercone: 00:21:44

And even if you don't get business from a specific podcast, as I said,

Jason Cercone: 00:21:49

that networking element is huge.

Jason Cercone: 00:21:51

because you're connecting with somebody that's like-minded that may

Jason Cercone: 00:21:55

know some people that down the road.

Jason Cercone: 00:21:58

And I, ab actually just had this happen.

Jason Cercone: 00:22:01

I worked with a person who had a guest on her show.

Jason Cercone: 00:22:05

I did the production for that show, well over a year ago.

Jason Cercone: 00:22:09

She just reached out to me last week and said, Hey, one of my clients

Jason Cercone: 00:22:13

is looking to start a podcast.

Jason Cercone: 00:22:15

You were the first person that I thought of.

Jason Cercone: 00:22:16

I need you to talk with him so he can get started on the.

Jason Cercone: 00:22:21

Perfect.

Jason Cercone: 00:22:21

And that was, again, that was a relationship that started well over a year

Jason Cercone: 00:22:25

ago by helping that person be comfortable.

Jason Cercone: 00:22:29

The role I was playing in that respect was coordinating the interviews,

Jason Cercone: 00:22:32

getting everything set up, making sure that the person that was on the

Jason Cercone: 00:22:35

guest side had everything they needed, making sure the host was set up so

Jason Cercone: 00:22:38

they could have a good conversation.

Jason Cercone: 00:22:41

That ultimately turned into a nice piece of content for

Jason Cercone: 00:22:44

her to build her brand with.

Jason Cercone: 00:22:45

But in doing that, I build a relationship with the guest to where over a year

Jason Cercone: 00:22:49

later, she thought of me first.

Jason Cercone: 00:22:51

That's the power of networking that's built in to the podcasting medium,

Jason Cercone: 00:22:55

and whether you get business today.

Jason Cercone: 00:22:58

Whether you get business a year from now, it's all proof that building

Jason Cercone: 00:23:03

powerful relationships is what's going to carry you to success no matter

Jason Cercone: 00:23:07

what space, industry niche that you are existing in today and podcasting.

Jason Cercone: 00:23:14

the great thing about it is it plugs into that space no matter what it is,

Jason Cercone: 00:23:18

so you can truly experience tremendous gains if you come at it the right way.

Jason Cercone: 00:23:22

So for me, networking has been, without question, the greatest thing

Jason Cercone: 00:23:27

that I've experienced in this space.

Jason Cercone: 00:23:30

Yeah,

John Ball: 00:23:30

I would say that for myself as well.

John Ball: 00:23:31

It's so if you come at this with a connect.

John Ball: 00:23:34

Perspective and something you actually care about people and

John Ball: 00:23:37

want to help and make a difference and be nice to each other.

John Ball: 00:23:41

You can do very well.

John Ball: 00:23:42

I do.

John Ball: 00:23:43

Yeah.

John Ball: 00:23:43

Ash, as much as I'm sure you come across some people who are very transactional

John Ball: 00:23:46

about it all and will just want to.

John Ball: 00:23:49

Either just be on your show for what they can get out of it, or you'll be use,

John Ball: 00:23:53

you'll be in their good books for as long as you're useful, that kind of thing.

John Ball: 00:23:56

And you get that sense of that very quickly.

John Ball: 00:23:59

There are even people who try and charge people for carrying on their

John Ball: 00:24:01

show or things like that as well.

John Ball: 00:24:03

Which, yeah I've never yet to even considered.

John Ball: 00:24:06

I would pay but I could never say, never say never.

John Ball: 00:24:09

Maybe in the right circumstances I would,

Jason Cercone: 00:24:11

but, well, well, not to.

Jason Cercone: 00:24:12

I just wanna, I just started doing something with my show, and the reason

Jason Cercone: 00:24:15

that I did this was because I was, my schedule was so booked out and as

Jason Cercone: 00:24:20

I was connecting with people and I was sharing my scheduling link, and

Jason Cercone: 00:24:23

they were saying, well, I can't get on your show until almost next year.

Jason Cercone: 00:24:26

And I was just looking.

Jason Cercone: 00:24:27

I was like, well, yeah, where I'm at right now, my schedule is booked.

Jason Cercone: 00:24:30

But then I started thinking about it a little.

Jason Cercone: 00:24:32

What if I offered the potential to do some expedited scheduling

Jason Cercone: 00:24:36

and get the show released and there would be a charge to that?

Jason Cercone: 00:24:39

Nothing huge, but I know how important these podcast interviews are for

Jason Cercone: 00:24:44

people in their content strategy, and they want to have these interviews

Jason Cercone: 00:24:48

out there because these little pieces of micro content serve as promotion,

Jason Cercone: 00:24:53

as awareness, as brand building.

Jason Cercone: 00:24:56

Waiting till next year or until the end of this year may not serve them.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:00

So they may not wanna come on at all.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:01

So I at least offer the option.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:04

So I say, listen, if you want to wait till the end of the year, here's my link.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:10

However, I do have these other options available.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:12

There's a small fee, but we can expedite the process and I can build this.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:16

So you're getting this content released much sooner, so you can

Jason Cercone: 00:25:20

use it to build your message and take it to where you need it to.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:24

, and that's starting to gain a little bit of traction for me.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:27

And I'm just experimenting.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:28

So I didn't throw huge price tags on this.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:30

I wanted to see how this would work.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:32

And so far the response has been positive because there's an option there.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:36

I'm not doing, like you said, Johnny, like, oh yeah, it's gonna cost you

Jason Cercone: 00:25:39

X amount of dollars across my show.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:40

Like, no, I have the free option, but I know how important time is in this space.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:45

So here are a couple additional options and we're, I'm gonna

Jason Cercone: 00:25:48

see where this goes as it con as I continue to push it forward.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:51

But I can.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:52

I hear the question a lot.

Jason Cercone: 00:25:54

How do I monetize my podcast?

Jason Cercone: 00:25:56

Here's a, this is something I will say, and I can't speak to this 100% yet, but

Jason Cercone: 00:26:01

create an environment that people wanna be a part of and make your content so

Jason Cercone: 00:26:06

compelling that the conversations are to a point where you're booked out so far,

Jason Cercone: 00:26:10

you have to start charging a premium.

Jason Cercone: 00:26:13

For something that's expedited.

Jason Cercone: 00:26:15

Is this a Monet monetization strategy?

Jason Cercone: 00:26:17

I don't know yet.

Jason Cercone: 00:26:18

I'm not going to get behind this 100%, but it again, the option is there and I

Jason Cercone: 00:26:23

feel like that's a very fair way to give someone the option to choose when they

Jason Cercone: 00:26:27

want to be a part of the show and have that piece of content work for them.

John Ball: 00:26:32

Yeah, exactly.

John Ball: 00:26:33

And I've heard, I think I've heard that strategy as well

John Ball: 00:26:36

from a few other podcasters.

John Ball: 00:26:37

I think Jeremy Ends was one of them and so yeah, I think it's a really good.

John Ball: 00:26:42

And haven't yet encountered a situation in my own show where there has been a

John Ball: 00:26:46

need for that, but it's in my mind now.

John Ball: 00:26:48

The seeds are planted and, and I will be thinking about that.

John Ball: 00:26:51

I dunno that anyone's in such a hurry right now to get the show

John Ball: 00:26:54

expedited on pod phones, but maybe, maybe a bit further down the light.

John Ball: 00:26:59

But this is, this is one of the things I think is really important with podcasting,

John Ball: 00:27:02

like you say about not paying too much attention to what kind of viewing stats

John Ball: 00:27:05

or listener stats the, the show has and.

John Ball: 00:27:08

That's important because I think if it's the right kind of show and the right kind

John Ball: 00:27:11

of conversation, which you do know pretty quick, I do get invited onto shows that

John Ball: 00:27:16

I just don't think I'm a good fit for, or they just starting out and they don't seem

John Ball: 00:27:19

to have much of a clue what they're about.

John Ball: 00:27:21

And I will turn those down.

John Ball: 00:27:22

And sometimes I feel bad about it.

John Ball: 00:27:24

Cause I think, well I didn't have much of a clue what I was about, but

John Ball: 00:27:27

I do, you know, I just, this is just a, I have to be careful of my time.

John Ball: 00:27:30

I have too much work really to be able to to do too much of that.

John Ball: 00:27:34

So I'm choosing carefully what I go on, but I'm not gonna turn someone

John Ball: 00:27:37

down because maybe they have, I dunno, 25 downloads per episodes.

John Ball: 00:27:41

I'm, if it's gonna be a good conversation, I'm gonna go on that.

John Ball: 00:27:44

But I also know I can probably help them and direct them to resources that are

John Ball: 00:27:49

gonna help to grow the show as well.

John Ball: 00:27:51

And to you don't know at what point in the future their show will take.

John Ball: 00:27:56

and people do.

John Ball: 00:27:57

This is maybe something a bit more unique to podcasting.

John Ball: 00:27:59

People will go through a back catalog and look for the episodes that are interesting

John Ball: 00:28:04

only about how you search for episodes.

John Ball: 00:28:05

But wh when I find a show I like, I'm not just listening to the latest

John Ball: 00:28:08

episode that comes out because I'm not always interested in them.

John Ball: 00:28:11

I will go through the list or if, if the latest episode comes out and I see

John Ball: 00:28:15

it and then, eh, then I, I'll look for another one that I'm more interested in.

Jason Cercone: 00:28:18

Mm-hmm.

Jason Cercone: 00:28:19

. The beauty of on-demand content is that you can ch pick and choose what

Jason Cercone: 00:28:23

you want to listen to, and that to me, that speaks to why podcasters need to

Jason Cercone: 00:28:29

produce quality content consistently.

Jason Cercone: 00:28:32

Because if when you attract a listener, they may go through every

Jason Cercone: 00:28:37

single episode because they're just that bought into what you're doing.

Jason Cercone: 00:28:42

But they may do what you do, Johnny, and just look through the catalog

Jason Cercone: 00:28:45

for titles that jump out and that to.

Jason Cercone: 00:28:49

Is again, the beauty of odd demand content.

Jason Cercone: 00:28:52

And maybe down the road they may say, well, I never listened to this one.

Jason Cercone: 00:28:55

Let me see what this one's all about.

Jason Cercone: 00:28:56

But ultimately, if you're gonna get them into your world and you're

Jason Cercone: 00:29:00

gonna keep them locked into your show, you have to have that type of

Jason Cercone: 00:29:04

quality content across the board.

Jason Cercone: 00:29:06

And there's no doubt that you're gonna get better as you go forward with your show.

Jason Cercone: 00:29:11

Because especially if you're starting fresh and you've never done

Jason Cercone: 00:29:14

this before, there's a learning.

Jason Cercone: 00:29:16

, but you wanna make sure that before you start, you're keeping that

Jason Cercone: 00:29:20

listener experience in mind and always ask, who am I speaking to?

Jason Cercone: 00:29:24

Who is my ideal listener for this content?

Jason Cercone: 00:29:27

And when you start speaking to that one person, that means you're

Jason Cercone: 00:29:31

creating content for one person.

Jason Cercone: 00:29:32

It makes it a little bit easier because then you're gonna start attracting.

Jason Cercone: 00:29:35

A bunch of people that are just like that one person, and that's

Jason Cercone: 00:29:39

going to lead to growth over time.

Jason Cercone: 00:29:42

It just, it doesn't happen overnight, which is one of the things that I think

Jason Cercone: 00:29:45

a lot of podcasters get hung up on is they stare at that download metric.

Jason Cercone: 00:29:51

What do I have to do to make this grow?

Jason Cercone: 00:29:53

What's, why, why isn't, why aren't people coming to my show and listening?

Jason Cercone: 00:29:56

Well, they just haven't discovered you yet, but you have to hold up

Jason Cercone: 00:30:00

your end of the bargain by giving them something that's quality and

Jason Cercone: 00:30:03

giving it to them consistently.

Jason Cercone: 00:30:05

If you say you're going live every Thursday, or you're, if you're bringing

Jason Cercone: 00:30:08

out a new show every Thursday, you damn well better bring out a new show.

Jason Cercone: 00:30:10

No.

Jason Cercone: 00:30:11

Every Thursday the average podcast listener consumes about six some,

Jason Cercone: 00:30:15

almost seven hours of podcast content per week, and we have lives

Jason Cercone: 00:30:22

outside of this, so you gotta.

Jason Cercone: 00:30:26

If you think about what an average person does in that span, they're

Jason Cercone: 00:30:30

listening to a podcast while they walk the dog or at the gym, or on

Jason Cercone: 00:30:33

their morning and evening commute.

Jason Cercone: 00:30:36

So whenever they have a podcast in their ear, they're gonna be pretty

Jason Cercone: 00:30:39

selective about what they listen to.

Jason Cercone: 00:30:42

So if your show enters into their orbit and it really grabs them and

Jason Cercone: 00:30:47

they start listening and they become a.

Jason Cercone: 00:30:50

and you come out every Thursday with a new episode, they can now build that

Jason Cercone: 00:30:54

show into their every Thursday routine.

Jason Cercone: 00:30:56

So if you, if they wake up and your show's there, maybe they're listening to it

Jason Cercone: 00:31:00

at the gym or on that morning commute.

Jason Cercone: 00:31:03

If you don't show up the next Thursday because you didn't plan accordingly and

Jason Cercone: 00:31:08

you stopped being consistent, guess what?

Jason Cercone: 00:31:10

They're gonna find another podcast.

Jason Cercone: 00:31:12

And if that podcast comes into orbit and takes over, it's gonna

Jason Cercone: 00:31:16

be difficult to get back into the.

Jason Cercone: 00:31:19

Right.

Jason Cercone: 00:31:19

You get a pass here and there because if people are truly fans

Jason Cercone: 00:31:23

of your show, they'll come back.

Jason Cercone: 00:31:24

But if you consistently stop being consistent, then people are gonna

Jason Cercone: 00:31:28

find new shows to listen to because they are listening at a specific time.

Jason Cercone: 00:31:32

So you wanna make sure you're there for them.

Jason Cercone: 00:31:35

That's how you build good content that keeps the butts in the seat.

Jason Cercone: 00:31:39

But then it also makes that person turn to a friend, a family

Jason Cercone: 00:31:43

member, a colleague, and say, you know, I've been listening to pod.

Jason Cercone: 00:31:46

The show is great.

Jason Cercone: 00:31:48

You need to listen to this show.

Jason Cercone: 00:31:49

I learned so much.

Jason Cercone: 00:31:50

Every episode that I take in that recommend ability factor is enormous,

Jason Cercone: 00:31:55

because if you have one listener of your show and that one listener

Jason Cercone: 00:31:59

turns to a friend and says, you need to listen, and then they do.

Jason Cercone: 00:32:02

Now you have two listeners.

Jason Cercone: 00:32:04

And then if each of them turns to a friend, now you've got four.

Jason Cercone: 00:32:07

And once this exponential growth kicks in, then you're off to the races.

Jason Cercone: 00:32:11

But that takes.

Jason Cercone: 00:32:13

So you have to be thinking, my end of this and what I can control is quality

Jason Cercone: 00:32:19

content, putting it out consistently, and making sure that I'm speaking to

Jason Cercone: 00:32:23

one person that will truly soak this in.

Jason Cercone: 00:32:27

I will tell you, when I built my Ideal listener profile for my show as

Jason Cercone: 00:32:30

I was doing it, I discovered it was myself like three years ago, , right?

Jason Cercone: 00:32:35

Like I'm speaking to what I used to, what, what I used to be and

Jason Cercone: 00:32:38

what I wanted to become in this.

Jason Cercone: 00:32:40

That's who I'm speaking to, and not just in the podcasting space, but in the brand

Jason Cercone: 00:32:45

building space, and ultimately in this, in this whole level or area of networking,

Jason Cercone: 00:32:50

leveling up required me to talk to myself.

Jason Cercone: 00:32:54

and that was how I built it.

Jason Cercone: 00:32:55

And we've been after the races ever since.

John Ball: 00:32:57

For me, one of the key things, I'm kind of having a little

John Ball: 00:33:01

epiphany whilst we're speaking really, but one of the key things about why

John Ball: 00:33:05

I'm doing po Fluence is part for myself, but it was driven by what I.

John Ball: 00:33:11

Really, some of the things I really don't like in the word of marketing,

John Ball: 00:33:13

cause I do think podcasting essentially is a great marketing tool.

John Ball: 00:33:16

Mm-hmm.

John Ball: 00:33:16

. But it, we can't let market ruin it.

John Ball: 00:33:19

it never be with so many things, so is one that should be treated well.

John Ball: 00:33:25

But we see so many things like people, we have these regular experiences, pupil

John Ball: 00:33:29

trying to slide into our, the ends, into our own boxes and sell us stuff

John Ball: 00:33:33

with no relationship, no context, no.

John Ball: 00:33:37

Preamble, no handshake, no introduction, nothing.

John Ball: 00:33:41

And they're just in there trying to say you something.

John Ball: 00:33:42

Hey, I've got a product, Harry Bella service.

John Ball: 00:33:44

I get that people need to make a living, but I don't like those

John Ball: 00:33:48

ways of doing it and I don't feel comfortable doing those things myself.

John Ball: 00:33:53

But I find something like podcasting where you get to have a conversation and get to

John Ball: 00:33:59

connect with people and talk about what you do sometimes for quite a long time.

John Ball: 00:34:03

Yeah, that's a great.

John Ball: 00:34:06

For people to be able to get to really know you and know what you're about, and

John Ball: 00:34:09

hopefully have a sense of your personality and if you're someone that they vibe

John Ball: 00:34:13

with and that you can trust, and that, that is one of the main reasons why I

John Ball: 00:34:18

think podcasting is incredibly powerful.

Jason Cercone: 00:34:22

Yeah I, I couldn't agree more and I'm, I'm with you on

Jason Cercone: 00:34:25

the dms, the solicitation emails.

Jason Cercone: 00:34:29

LinkedIn is, people are just notorious for this and it drives me crazy.

Jason Cercone: 00:34:33

I'm.

Jason Cercone: 00:34:34

Had a, I won't tell the full story, but I had a situation with someone that reached

Jason Cercone: 00:34:38

out to me on LinkedIn and I thought we were having a genuine conversation.

Jason Cercone: 00:34:41

We were talking about things that I do, things that she does.

Jason Cercone: 00:34:45

Things seem to be going really well, and this is, to me, I'm thinking this is

Jason Cercone: 00:34:48

what I want from this platform, from this network is these genuine conversations.

Jason Cercone: 00:34:53

See if we can help one another.

Jason Cercone: 00:34:55

And in my mind, I wasn't thinking sales at all.

Jason Cercone: 00:34:58

I was just thinking, let's just keep building on this relationship.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:02

down the road.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:02

Maybe there is something that we can do to work together.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:05

Who knows where this is going to go to.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:07

All of a sudden, I had asked a question about something that, and, and it,

Jason Cercone: 00:35:11

it spiraled into, now all of a sudden I'm getting sent a link to book a call

Jason Cercone: 00:35:16

with somebody else in her company.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:18

I'm like, well, wait a minute.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:19

This was, I, I was like, I just thought we were talking here.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:22

I wasn't looking to have this.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:23

Well, I mean, if you really want to get answers to this,

Jason Cercone: 00:35:25

you need to talk to this person.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:26

They're the ones that handle this.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:27

For me, I was like, you know, Forget it.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:30

And so many people do that.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:33

It's not about building relationships, it's that transaction.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:37

How fast can I sell somebody?

Jason Cercone: 00:35:38

How quickly can I get them to my sales page?

Jason Cercone: 00:35:41

And if they have quotas, I get it.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:43

But there are better ways to do it.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:46

Think about from the podcasting's perspective and being a guest, speaking

Jason Cercone: 00:35:50

from experience, and I'm sure people out there that have built their brands as

Jason Cercone: 00:35:53

a podcast guest can speak to this as.

Jason Cercone: 00:35:56

there are a lot of bottlenecks that you're going to run into getting this

Jason Cercone: 00:36:01

off the ground because you have to start now, . It really is the best way to say

Jason Cercone: 00:36:06

it, because podcasters are proactive.

Jason Cercone: 00:36:09

They may not be able to get you on right away.

Jason Cercone: 00:36:12

So finding the right shows is the first step, obviously.

Jason Cercone: 00:36:16

But you have to be respectful of their schedule.

Jason Cercone: 00:36:20

They might not be able to get you on tomorrow, maybe a few weeks, maybe next.

Jason Cercone: 00:36:24

I've booked a few shows into 2023 already, because that's how far they're booked out.

Jason Cercone: 00:36:29

Yeah, so there's one bottleneck.

Jason Cercone: 00:36:30

Then once you actually do have the interview, then there's the period of

Jason Cercone: 00:36:33

time before the interview goes live.

Jason Cercone: 00:36:35

Some podcasters have, uh, a month, some two, some three, some again, another one

Jason Cercone: 00:36:40

told me, oh, this will be out in 2023.

Jason Cercone: 00:36:43

To which I mean that to me is a little too far because things can change a

Jason Cercone: 00:36:47

lot for that person in that timeframe.

Jason Cercone: 00:36:49

So you don't want to go too far outside of a, of the window of

Jason Cercone: 00:36:53

making sure that it's relevant to the person that you just interviewed.

Jason Cercone: 00:36:56

But that said, that's an example of another bottleneck.

Jason Cercone: 00:36:59

So you have to be consistently looking for these opportunities because if

Jason Cercone: 00:37:04

you don't set yourself up in that capacity, you're not gonna have

Jason Cercone: 00:37:08

this content going live for a while.

Jason Cercone: 00:37:10

So you have to make sure that you're set up.

Jason Cercone: 00:37:13

Interviews to pop at all times.

Jason Cercone: 00:37:15

And sales works the same way.

Jason Cercone: 00:37:17

If you're looking to build a relationship with somebody that's

Jason Cercone: 00:37:20

gonna take some time and you can't just immediately jump into bed.

Jason Cercone: 00:37:24

It's like going on a first date and then immediately jumping into

Jason Cercone: 00:37:27

bed with someone that happens.

Jason Cercone: 00:37:29

, but how often do those relationships ever pan out, right?

Jason Cercone: 00:37:32

Like there's this mindset of we have to sell, sell, sell right now, and then

Jason Cercone: 00:37:37

we forego the relationship building.

Jason Cercone: 00:37:40

So in the podcast space, the relationship building can be enormous.

Jason Cercone: 00:37:44

Same as in the sales space.

Jason Cercone: 00:37:45

And if you're constantly always thinking, I have to sell, I

Jason Cercone: 00:37:48

have to sell, I have to sell.

Jason Cercone: 00:37:49

Go work at a car dealership.

Jason Cercone: 00:37:51

They will love your drive.

Jason Cercone: 00:37:52

They will love your mentality because they're looking to move metal as fast as.

Jason Cercone: 00:37:57

. But in the this world that we exist in, it takes time to build a relationship with

Jason Cercone: 00:38:03

somebody and nurture that relationship to get them to a point to where

Jason Cercone: 00:38:06

they're ready to do business with you.

Jason Cercone: 00:38:08

So the podcasting platform from my side of this is the greatest way to

Jason Cercone: 00:38:13

continue to have these conversations that over time are going to be

Jason Cercone: 00:38:18

heard by different audiences.

Jason Cercone: 00:38:20

There may be some crossover in the audiences, but the more

Jason Cercone: 00:38:23

people hear my voice and hear my.

Jason Cercone: 00:38:25

My hopes is that they want to have a conversation with me to see if it makes

Jason Cercone: 00:38:29

sense for them to be mentored by me or to take advantage of some of my courses and

Jason Cercone: 00:38:34

really see if it's a good fit for them.

Jason Cercone: 00:38:36

But I'm not trying to sell that today.

Jason Cercone: 00:38:39

I just want to be here to have a good conversation with you, Johnny.

Jason Cercone: 00:38:42

We can share some ideas.

Jason Cercone: 00:38:43

We can go back and forth on a, on the things we're passionate about, what we

Jason Cercone: 00:38:47

love about podcasting, and the hopes is that resonates with the audience where

Jason Cercone: 00:38:51

they'd want to take the next step and either give you a call, give me a call.

Jason Cercone: 00:38:55

We're not sitting here going, you need to buy today or else, you

Jason Cercone: 00:38:58

know, like that to me is, it's just such a horrible way to do business.

Jason Cercone: 00:39:01

But like you said, so many people are in that mindset.

Jason Cercone: 00:39:04

They have to do that and it's, ugh.

Jason Cercone: 00:39:07

Cringeworthy

John Ball: 00:39:08

there, there were, there were some very specific things I had

John Ball: 00:39:10

in mind for who I wanted as guests on this show when I started, when

John Ball: 00:39:14

I relaunched the show, and one was people who have been building up a

John Ball: 00:39:19

business for themselves as podcasters.

John Ball: 00:39:23

Another was for people who have been building up their business

John Ball: 00:39:26

as podcast guests, and another for people who are, have maybe been

John Ball: 00:39:31

using podcasting as a marketing.

John Ball: 00:39:34

Platform for getting their ads on or sponsorships and those kinds

John Ball: 00:39:38

of arrangements and, and still wanting to have guests who can

John Ball: 00:39:42

come and talk about influence and persuasion stuff because, just because

John Ball: 00:39:45

that's deeply fascinating to me.

John Ball: 00:39:47

But what has been interesting is be since getting much more specific about

John Ball: 00:39:50

that, I thought, oh, that's really gonna narrow down and limit the kinds

John Ball: 00:39:53

of guests that I can get on the show.

John Ball: 00:39:55

Not so much.

John Ball: 00:39:56

It's actually just made it really clear to people who I want, and those people have.

John Ball: 00:40:01

Coming forward.

John Ball: 00:40:02

And so now I've actually been having quite a few conversations with people

John Ball: 00:40:06

who have built businesses through podcast guesting and thinking, wow, that is, I

John Ball: 00:40:12

think, what people need to hear when you build six figure seven figure businesses.

John Ball: 00:40:16

From being a podcast guest.

John Ball: 00:40:18

And that has been your main marketing strategy all the way through.

John Ball: 00:40:22

And not everyone is necessarily going to do that, but just so you know that

John Ball: 00:40:25

that's out there, people are doing it.

John Ball: 00:40:27

You can do that.

John Ball: 00:40:28

And if that's not enough to convince our listener to something, oh,

John Ball: 00:40:31

maybe I should be doing this then I don't really know what would do it.

John Ball: 00:40:35

But . Let's say, let's say our listener is think sibling hunting.

John Ball: 00:40:40

And yeah, I probably should be thinking about this.

John Ball: 00:40:42

It's like, maybe it's not gonna cover you that much money.

John Ball: 00:40:45

Maybe it's gonna cost you a bit of time and maybe there's a bit

John Ball: 00:40:47

of a learning curve to doing this, but where should I get started?

John Ball: 00:40:51

What do you

Jason Cercone: 00:40:51

think?

Jason Cercone: 00:40:53

I think the biggest thing you can do, and this is if you're looking to do

Jason Cercone: 00:40:56

diy, and I will say, and, and again not to go into sales mode, I, I'm

Jason Cercone: 00:41:00

happy to have a conversation with.

Jason Cercone: 00:41:02

To determine whether a coaching program makes sense or if you're

Jason Cercone: 00:41:06

just looking to specifically go diy.

Jason Cercone: 00:41:08

Here are some pointers and I can obviously serve that master right now.

Jason Cercone: 00:41:14

Go on to the the internet.

Jason Cercone: 00:41:18

Start with Google and whatever industry you're in, just search best, fill in your

Jason Cercone: 00:41:23

industry podcasts and see what pops up.

Jason Cercone: 00:41:29

In doing that, the great thing about Google these days is

Jason Cercone: 00:41:31

they're returning great podcasts.

Jason Cercone: 00:41:33

Like they've really taken time to index and and use podcasts

Jason Cercone: 00:41:37

as great search query results.

Jason Cercone: 00:41:40

Mu much like anything else that you would find on Google, they've started

Jason Cercone: 00:41:42

to respect what podcasts can deliver to people just as much as any other media.

Jason Cercone: 00:41:47

So you're gonna get a nice list of podcasts that exist in your space,

Jason Cercone: 00:41:51

and then you can look through that list and you can maybe see it.

Jason Cercone: 00:41:55

The name of a podcast might jump outta you.

Jason Cercone: 00:41:56

So you can click on that and then you can look through their catalog

Jason Cercone: 00:41:59

and see what they're talking about.

Jason Cercone: 00:42:01

And if there's topics that are very adjacent to what you talk about,

Jason Cercone: 00:42:07

take a listen to that episode and see if you could provide just as

Jason Cercone: 00:42:11

much value, if not more, as that guest that's on that specific.

Jason Cercone: 00:42:16

If you could jot that down, then find maybe five podcasts total, and

Jason Cercone: 00:42:23

then you'd wanna reach out to them in a very high quality way, something

Jason Cercone: 00:42:26

that's gonna make you stand out.

Jason Cercone: 00:42:28

And you want to put together a presentation that says that you

Jason Cercone: 00:42:31

took time to listen to some of the content to make sure it resonated.

Jason Cercone: 00:42:36

Because listen, I'm gonna bring this value to the show too, and here's why.

Jason Cercone: 00:42:40

Podcasters get presentations and pitch.

Jason Cercone: 00:42:43

In like in bulk, yeah.

Jason Cercone: 00:42:46

Every week.

Jason Cercone: 00:42:48

And many of them get overlooked because people just are sending this list of

Jason Cercone: 00:42:53

accolades that they've accomplished and they think that's the reason

Jason Cercone: 00:42:55

why they should be on the show.

Jason Cercone: 00:42:57

Now, to anybody that's accomplished great things, I, I tip my cap and I

Jason Cercone: 00:43:01

say, congratulations, that's fantastic.

Jason Cercone: 00:43:03

Of course, you should be proud of what you accomplished, but I need to know

Jason Cercone: 00:43:07

what type of value you're bringing to my.

Jason Cercone: 00:43:09

What are we going to talk about that's going to resonate with my audience?

Jason Cercone: 00:43:13

What was it in the content that you checked out that resonated with you, that

Jason Cercone: 00:43:18

makes you feel that you'd be valuable?

Jason Cercone: 00:43:20

That to me as a podcaster is what I'm looking for.

Jason Cercone: 00:43:23

But so many people try to take shortcuts and just say, Hey, I

Jason Cercone: 00:43:26

just left your review on your show.

Jason Cercone: 00:43:28

You should put me on like, it's a bargaining ship, and I've heard

Jason Cercone: 00:43:31

gurus recommend doing this, right?

Jason Cercone: 00:43:34

Hell no, I, no.

Jason Cercone: 00:43:36

After our conversation, Johnny, I will go leave a review on your

Jason Cercone: 00:43:39

podcast because I've had interaction.

Jason Cercone: 00:43:42

I know what the experience was like.

Jason Cercone: 00:43:44

I can now go tell the listeners that might look through reviews what they'd

Jason Cercone: 00:43:48

experienced listening to this show.

Jason Cercone: 00:43:50

I don't wanna use it as a bargaining chip to get shoehorned into a guest appearance.

Jason Cercone: 00:43:55

So to get started, that's the best way to do it.

Jason Cercone: 00:43:58

And then you have to get your feet wet.

Jason Cercone: 00:44:01

You have to practice, you have to get these practice swings in, which again is.

Jason Cercone: 00:44:07

Fundamental step that so many people want to skip.

Jason Cercone: 00:44:10

They feel like they just want to go on one podcast and expect the world

Jason Cercone: 00:44:13

to show up at their door, ready to buy whatever they have, which is why

Jason Cercone: 00:44:17

they switch into sales mode sometimes.

Jason Cercone: 00:44:20

There's a lengthy process to this, and I'm really giving the Cliff's

Jason Cercone: 00:44:23

Notes version of this right now, but make sure that no matter what you

Jason Cercone: 00:44:28

do, it's rooted in value and it's.

Jason Cercone: 00:44:34

Because if it's not, it's going to get exposed and you're not going to get a

Jason Cercone: 00:44:39

lot of guest opportunities following that first, second, third one that

Jason Cercone: 00:44:43

you do if you show up and just sell.

Jason Cercone: 00:44:46

No one's going to want to book you.

Jason Cercone: 00:44:49

If you show up with value and you start building a genuine relationship

Jason Cercone: 00:44:53

with that host, they may say, listen, I've got a friend that does a podcast.

Jason Cercone: 00:44:57

You'd be perfect now.

Jason Cercone: 00:44:59

You just doubled your bookings without lifting a.

Jason Cercone: 00:45:02

Okay, so again, we've talked about this in steps throughout our conversation

Jason Cercone: 00:45:06

today, Johnny, but if you do it.

Jason Cercone: 00:45:08

This value driven way and your mindset is not that you're there to sell, but

Jason Cercone: 00:45:14

that you're there to tell a story, provide a great message, to get people to

Jason Cercone: 00:45:20

understand what you do, who you are, and how you could help them solve a problem.

Jason Cercone: 00:45:25

That's going to lead to much better results and it's

Jason Cercone: 00:45:28

gonna get you a lot further.

Jason Cercone: 00:45:29

So that's a great jumping off point for everybody

John Ball: 00:45:33

definitely.

John Ball: 00:45:33

And great value as well.

John Ball: 00:45:34

And I agree with everything you said there, it's taken me, took me a long

John Ball: 00:45:38

time to figure some of that out.

John Ball: 00:45:40

And you are one of the people who helped me figure some of that out as well.

John Ball: 00:45:43

So thank you for that.

John Ball: 00:45:44

You're welcome.

John Ball: 00:45:44

But it is super, super important to approach things from that perspective.

John Ball: 00:45:48

And I know as a show host, that's what I'm looking for.

John Ball: 00:45:50

And if somebody can't show me the value they're gonna bring.

John Ball: 00:45:54

Or I can't even at least see the potential for the value there.

John Ball: 00:45:57

Then I'm not even going to really entertain them as a potential guest.

John Ball: 00:46:01

What I will always do though, except in rare cases, like somebody who I has

John Ball: 00:46:06

specifically sought out and invited on the show, I ask everyone who applies

John Ball: 00:46:10

to be on the show, even if they've come through an agency or anything like that.

John Ball: 00:46:14

If they look interesting, they still have to fill out an application for.

John Ball: 00:46:18

Because that's answering the questions that I need to know the answers to it.

John Ball: 00:46:22

And if they can't do that for me, then I don't know if I should

John Ball: 00:46:25

bring them on the show or not.

John Ball: 00:46:26

And then we have a pre-show chat.

John Ball: 00:46:28

So, you know, I, I like to do things, I like to do things a certain way,

John Ball: 00:46:32

but there's such great value in this for people to get on shows.

John Ball: 00:46:36

And you say it's important to bring the stories.

John Ball: 00:46:38

I think it's important to bring some entertainment and some fun to podcasts

John Ball: 00:46:41

and I think a lot of people should.

John Ball: 00:46:42

A lot of people don't do that.

John Ball: 00:46:43

A lot of me, it's very dry content.

John Ball: 00:46:45

Yeah.

John Ball: 00:46:45

I wonder for you, what have been some of your weirdest

John Ball: 00:46:49

or strangest experiences as a

Jason Cercone: 00:46:51

podcaster

Jason Cercone: 00:46:53

One story I always like to tell is I was, I, this was on a past podcast

Jason Cercone: 00:46:57

that I don't do anymore, but we had set up some time to interview.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:02

Everything was fine.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:03

We'd gone back and forth.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:03

It was all good, and comes down to interview time.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:07

I sign.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:08

He signs on and he's driving in his car and he's in traffic and he, that's

Jason Cercone: 00:47:14

where he wanted to do the inter.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:15

I was like wait aren't you in front of your microphone?

Jason Cercone: 00:47:17

No, no.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:17

I got, I got held up, so I'm just gonna do it.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:19

I'm like, no, we're not doing it here.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:23

Like, you're driving, you're distracted.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:26

You shouldn't be, you're, you should be focused on the road not talking to me.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:29

That's not gonna make for the best.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:31

So we ended up rescheduling actually.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:33

I know.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:33

You know, come to think about, I don't know if we ever ended

Jason Cercone: 00:47:35

up doing that interview now.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:37

I don't think we did.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:39

The lesson I learned from that was I need to be more clear about

Jason Cercone: 00:47:44

how I communicate with my guests.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:45

To me, that was common knowledge that you're just gonna be in front of your

Jason Cercone: 00:47:49

computer and we're going to have this conversation like we would any other time.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:53

We'd have a meeting.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:54

Not with somebody in rush hour traffic . So I learned from there.

Jason Cercone: 00:47:59

Make sure to tell people, have a microphone.

Jason Cercone: 00:48:01

Be in front of your computer with reliable internet in a quiet

Jason Cercone: 00:48:04

environment so we can produce the best sounding audio for the audience.

Jason Cercone: 00:48:08

So that's really what it's all about.

Jason Cercone: 00:48:09

It's not about me and my preference.

Jason Cercone: 00:48:11

It's not about you needing to be focused on the road and not on our convers.

Jason Cercone: 00:48:16

It's about what's gonna make the best listener experience at the end.

Jason Cercone: 00:48:20

Yeah.

Jason Cercone: 00:48:21

And if the horns are beeping and there's all kinds of traffic

Jason Cercone: 00:48:26

noises in the background, how is that quality for the listener?

Jason Cercone: 00:48:29

That's terrible.

Jason Cercone: 00:48:29

So if, if not, no, and that's where I do, I get frustrated when I see that

Jason Cercone: 00:48:35

type of content still get put out because we're not in a place where

Jason Cercone: 00:48:39

that learning curve is as steep.

Jason Cercone: 00:48:41

It's definitely flattened because there's.

Jason Cercone: 00:48:44

, you have to captivate that audience pretty much from the first time

Jason Cercone: 00:48:47

they tune in because there's another podcast in their search that they

Jason Cercone: 00:48:51

can listen to if you don't deliver.

Jason Cercone: 00:48:54

So I'm, I'm getting off track from your question, but basically

Jason Cercone: 00:48:57

that was, that was one of the weirdest experiences I've ever had.

Jason Cercone: 00:49:00

I will, I will tell this story more for just the entertainment value behind

Jason Cercone: 00:49:03

it because it's pretty funny back.

Jason Cercone: 00:49:05

The first podcast we did was a beer podcast at that point in.

Jason Cercone: 00:49:09

I was doing marketing and branding in the craft beer industry.

Jason Cercone: 00:49:12

I was helping some of the local breweries here in Pittsburgh get their

Jason Cercone: 00:49:14

products placed in bars and restaurants and bottle shops, things of that

Jason Cercone: 00:49:18

nature, and really was enjoying it.

Jason Cercone: 00:49:20

But in that time, I had this podcast and there was this big event that they

Jason Cercone: 00:49:24

wanted me to do a live show from, and not really live as in like we were

Jason Cercone: 00:49:28

projecting the message to the audience.

Jason Cercone: 00:49:29

We were just there recording and people that were there would join us and.

Jason Cercone: 00:49:33

Fun in the respect of what we were doing.

Jason Cercone: 00:49:37

Us all together, having this conversation from a listener's standpoint, it was

Jason Cercone: 00:49:41

just god awful . But right before we were getting ready to hit the

Jason Cercone: 00:49:46

record button and get started one of the whiskey representatives that was

Jason Cercone: 00:49:49

there comes up and puts three shots in front of me and she goes, you

Jason Cercone: 00:49:52

have to do those before you start.

Jason Cercone: 00:49:53

And I'd already been drinking beer.

Jason Cercone: 00:49:55

I'm like, no, I don't think I can do this.

Jason Cercone: 00:49:57

She's like, you have to.

Jason Cercone: 00:49:58

I'm like, . Right.

Jason Cercone: 00:50:00

So I.

Jason Cercone: 00:50:02

and just, I mean, you can imagine where it went from there, . All I do

Jason Cercone: 00:50:06

remember is that when I listen back to edit the next day, I had announced,

Jason Cercone: 00:50:12

I had introduced myself with my co-hosts last name and did not even

Jason Cercone: 00:50:16

realize that I did that in the moment.

Jason Cercone: 00:50:18

And one of the guys that was a co-host, you hear 'em in the background

Jason Cercone: 00:50:21

go, what'd you call yourself?

Jason Cercone: 00:50:24

. So again, like I think back, I'm like, those were so fun to record,

Jason Cercone: 00:50:28

but for a listener to ha have to try to consume that, those were not.

Jason Cercone: 00:50:32

I wish.

Jason Cercone: 00:50:32

I don't think I, I know for a fact I did not have the statistic

Jason Cercone: 00:50:35

tied to our host at that time.

Jason Cercone: 00:50:37

That would tell me the dropoff rate.

Jason Cercone: 00:50:40

When did somebody tune out?

Jason Cercone: 00:50:41

I would have to assume that it was very early in that

Jason Cercone: 00:50:45

production that they walked away.

Jason Cercone: 00:50:47

So yeah, that that was more, like I said, fun for me, not fun for the listener.

John Ball: 00:50:52

Probably not so much, but I think you, you've done a, a great job

John Ball: 00:50:54

today highlighting just how important the listener experience really is and,

John Ball: 00:50:59

and thinking about actual listener behaviors and making sure that you go

John Ball: 00:51:02

with those and there is a reality in life that unless if you're hosting a

John Ball: 00:51:06

podcast, unless your guest is a podcast or someone who has generally works with

John Ball: 00:51:11

audio in some way or maybe a YouTube or so that they're probably not gonna

John Ball: 00:51:15

care very much about audio quality.

John Ball: 00:51:17

in the way that you would, and sometimes even if you tell them to

John Ball: 00:51:20

have an external mic or to plug into the ethernet and all that kind of

John Ball: 00:51:24

stuff, it doesn't always happen.

John Ball: 00:51:26

Yeah.

John Ball: 00:51:26

But you know, there are things, there are things you can do to

John Ball: 00:51:28

minimize that in the long run.

John Ball: 00:51:30

But as a guest, do your host a favor.

John Ball: 00:51:33

and do the best or quality that you can manage with your

John Ball: 00:51:35

budget, and that's all we ask.

John Ball: 00:51:37

That's all we ask

John Ball: 00:51:38

. Jason Cercone: I, yeah, I, it's funny

John Ball: 00:51:41

told them about my training program, and they've asked, well, are you telling

John Ball: 00:51:45

people what to do for qual audio quality?

John Ball: 00:51:47

I'm like, absolutely I am.

John Ball: 00:51:49

Because I built a lot of this with the podcaster in mind because

John Ball: 00:51:53

again, like I said earlier in our conversation, I know what you want to

John Ball: 00:51:56

accomplish with your show, so it would.

John Ball: 00:51:59

Behoove me to train somebody to not be thinking the same way.

John Ball: 00:52:04

So minimums are having a, a microphone of some kind, having headphones and

John Ball: 00:52:10

having a quiet environment to record it.

John Ball: 00:52:13

Because again, if you're trying to be, if you're in the middle

John Ball: 00:52:16

of an office where there's people passing by and there's distractions

John Ball: 00:52:19

and interruptions, it hurts the.

John Ball: 00:52:23

. If you don't have a microphone, that external microphone

John Ball: 00:52:25

does not do you any favors.

John Ball: 00:52:28

So I tell everyone, if you wanna do this, let's do it right, and

John Ball: 00:52:32

you don't have to break the bank.

John Ball: 00:52:34

You can start with a microphone that just makes your voice sound more

John Ball: 00:52:37

professional, more clear, and again, helps that listener experience go

John Ball: 00:52:41

to the next level down the road.

John Ball: 00:52:43

If you're really into this and you feel like being a podcast guest is

John Ball: 00:52:47

the best way to build your brand going forward, and you wanna really go all

John Ball: 00:52:50

in, then you can invest a little bit more in some more expensive equipment.

John Ball: 00:52:55

But really what I, I tell podcasters, I tell guests, Focus on your voice.

John Ball: 00:53:02

Build your voice.

John Ball: 00:53:03

Find your voice gross.

John Ball: 00:53:06

Some confidence in how you project your message and tell your story.

John Ball: 00:53:10

Yeah, you wanna have the minimum requirements of Mike Headphone quiet

John Ball: 00:53:14

environment, but don't think about the fancy bells and whistles because

John Ball: 00:53:18

ag, a lot of times it's an obstacle.

John Ball: 00:53:20

That people will put in front of themselves to not get started, right?

John Ball: 00:53:25

I need to get the most expensive digital audio interface, and I have

John Ball: 00:53:30

to spend all this money and things.

John Ball: 00:53:31

Don't have that money right now.

John Ball: 00:53:32

So until I do, I'm not gonna move forward and it's the wrong mentality.

John Ball: 00:53:38

Get started.

John Ball: 00:53:38

See if you love this.

John Ball: 00:53:39

See if it works for you.

John Ball: 00:53:42

As you fall in love with the process, then you can invest some more money.

John Ball: 00:53:46

. But for now, just focus on getting better at your craft.

John Ball: 00:53:51

Take those practice swings, get the minimum requirements.

John Ball: 00:53:54

So you sound good in doing it, but like you said, Johnny, respecting that listener

John Ball: 00:54:00

experience is gonna make everybody win.

John Ball: 00:54:02

And podcasters are going to appreciate the fact that you're showing up,

John Ball: 00:54:06

thinking about their overall experience.

John Ball: 00:54:09

That's what will get you invited back for a second, third, fourth interview.

John Ball: 00:54:13

And,

John Ball: 00:54:14

Yeah.

John Ball: 00:54:15

Yeah.

John Ball: 00:54:15

We've heard you mention your course a few times and I'm guessing that

John Ball: 00:54:20

there's gonna be some people listening to this show who are thinking that

John Ball: 00:54:24

maybe I should check that out.

John Ball: 00:54:25

Maybe I should actually think about if I'm gonna be a podcast guest and

John Ball: 00:54:28

I wanna make sure I do it well, I should go and take a look at that.

John Ball: 00:54:31

How, or how I say where should they

Jason Cercone: 00:54:34

go?

Jason Cercone: 00:54:34

Find more.

Jason Cercone: 00:54:36

They can visit guest accelerator.com.

Jason Cercone: 00:54:40

. It's not, it's in theory a course, but really what I've built

Jason Cercone: 00:54:44

it to be is more interactive.

Jason Cercone: 00:54:46

It's a intensive training with additional sessions where we actually

Jason Cercone: 00:54:51

do interviews to work on vocal quirks to work on your overall delivery.

Jason Cercone: 00:54:57

My goal with this whole process is to make sure you understand what you can gain

Jason Cercone: 00:55:04

from being a value-driven podcast guest.

Jason Cercone: 00:55:07

also, how to execute all of the steps that it takes to really get

Jason Cercone: 00:55:11

results from being a podcast guest.

Jason Cercone: 00:55:15

So many people have said, and this was either to me in passing or back

Jason Cercone: 00:55:19

when Clubhouse was a thing I heard people say, and they just didn't get

Jason Cercone: 00:55:22

anything from being a podcast guest.

Jason Cercone: 00:55:24

I don't know why I did it.

Jason Cercone: 00:55:25

It doesn't work.

Jason Cercone: 00:55:27

Well, if you only go on one interview, as I said before, the

Jason Cercone: 00:55:30

world's not gonna show up at your.

Jason Cercone: 00:55:33

You have to get better at your craft.

Jason Cercone: 00:55:35

And that takes time and that takes consistently going on interviews.

Jason Cercone: 00:55:38

And I'm not saying you go on interviews all day, every day, maybe do one a week

Jason Cercone: 00:55:41

to get started and then build from there.

Jason Cercone: 00:55:44

Build the foundation, get more confident, go from there.

Jason Cercone: 00:55:47

But in that process, there's more steps than just booking an interview, showing

Jason Cercone: 00:55:54

up and talking, and then walking away.

Jason Cercone: 00:55:57

Because I said before, what was my most powerful takeaway from the podcast?

Jason Cercone: 00:56:02

Networking.

Jason Cercone: 00:56:03

You have to go into every guest appearance with the mindset of what can I do to build

Jason Cercone: 00:56:09

a great relationship with this person?

Jason Cercone: 00:56:10

How can I monetize this interview before it even goes live?

Jason Cercone: 00:56:15

If you do things properly, you give yourself an opportunity to do that.

Jason Cercone: 00:56:20

But if you just come in treating it like a transaction, no one's gonna wanna

Jason Cercone: 00:56:23

take you seriously when the interview's over and they're probably just gonna

Jason Cercone: 00:56:26

tune you out and not listen to anything.

Jason Cercone: 00:56:28

Hell, if you spent the whole time in sales mode, they already feel

Jason Cercone: 00:56:31

like they've been sold to, they're either gonna buy or they're not

Jason Cercone: 00:56:34

So you have to treat this entire process as a means of networking with

Jason Cercone: 00:56:39

the hosts and even with the audience, you can jump into social media

Jason Cercone: 00:56:43

conversations and at least make your.

Jason Cercone: 00:56:47

No and build some awareness around the fact that I just connected with

Jason Cercone: 00:56:51

Johnny and we had a great conversation.

Jason Cercone: 00:56:53

It's gonna be going live next month, but in the meantime, I'm here.

Jason Cercone: 00:56:56

I can chat, we can talk, whatever.

Jason Cercone: 00:56:58

I'm available.

Jason Cercone: 00:56:59

My door is open.

Jason Cercone: 00:57:01

You can not go into sales mode there either.

Jason Cercone: 00:57:04

You're contributing valuable nuggets of information to the conversations

Jason Cercone: 00:57:08

that are already taking place within that podcast, social media community.

Jason Cercone: 00:57:13

So there are a lot of ways that you can really stand.

Jason Cercone: 00:57:16

If you do it properly, you can really experience gains.

Jason Cercone: 00:57:20

If you try to take shortcuts, that's when things fall short, and that's

Jason Cercone: 00:57:24

really what I try to drive home within the guest accelerator program.

Jason Cercone: 00:57:29

Here's how this works, and here's how you can benefit from being a podcast

Jason Cercone: 00:57:34

guest and being a resource for podcasters before, during, and after your interview.

Jason Cercone: 00:57:39

Once we get through the guest accelerator program, if you'd like to continue

Jason Cercone: 00:57:42

working with me and get looking at shows to get you booked on and things of

Jason Cercone: 00:57:46

that nature, I have programs for that.

Jason Cercone: 00:57:48

But we start with guest accelerator to make sure the fundamentals are in place.

John Ball: 00:57:53

Yeah, fantastic stuff.

John Ball: 00:57:54

So anyone who wants to check that out, if you didn't grab the links there,

John Ball: 00:57:57

they are in the show notes for you to go and check out as well as you'll find a

John Ball: 00:58:00

link, link there to Jason's podcast or even put a link in there to podcast as

John Ball: 00:58:04

well, especially if it's coming back.

John Ball: 00:58:05

So, definitely good, good news to hear that that's on its way

John Ball: 00:58:08

back in some way, shape or form.

John Ball: 00:58:09

Yes, Jason, I wanna ask you, I wonder for you, what if you could send one

John Ball: 00:58:15

short message back to yourself at the time when you were starting out

John Ball: 00:58:19

in podcasting, what would it be?

Jason Cercone: 00:58:22

Plan better.

Jason Cercone: 00:58:25

My first podcast to tell a brief story was launched out of spite.

Jason Cercone: 00:58:29

And I know that most people aren't going to do that, but

Jason Cercone: 00:58:34

here's how it all unfolded.

Jason Cercone: 00:58:35

I had started an app to help connect the craft beer community in Pittsburgh

Jason Cercone: 00:58:40

with events that were going on across the city at different bars, breweries,

Jason Cercone: 00:58:44

restaurants, big events that people could attend, and connections to

Jason Cercone: 00:58:47

the tickets, all these things, and.

Jason Cercone: 00:58:49

I did this obnoxious three week countdown to the launch of the app when it would

Jason Cercone: 00:58:52

be available for download, and it was just, I was having some fun with it,

Jason Cercone: 00:58:55

and that's really what it was all about when we're in the beer industry, right?

Jason Cercone: 00:58:58

It's not supposed to be rigid and stiff.

Jason Cercone: 00:59:01

So right when it launched, I had this guy just start trolling

Jason Cercone: 00:59:06

me on Twitter about this app.

Jason Cercone: 00:59:09

Oh you, you're doing this all wrong and this is never gonna

Jason Cercone: 00:59:11

work, and blah, blah, blah.

Jason Cercone: 00:59:12

I'm just like, well, you know nothing about what I'm doing.

Jason Cercone: 00:59:17

That was my first experience with a troll, so I didn't have full

Jason Cercone: 00:59:20

understanding of what that even meant.

Jason Cercone: 00:59:22

But when I looked at what he did, I discovered he hosted a podcast and my

Jason Cercone: 00:59:28

best friend and I had been kicking around ideas about what we were gonna do and

Jason Cercone: 00:59:32

we couldn't land on anything concrete.

Jason Cercone: 00:59:34

And then when I saw that, that's what he did.

Jason Cercone: 00:59:37

, I texted my best friend, I said, I found out what we're gonna do.

Jason Cercone: 00:59:39

We're gonna do a beer podcast and we're gonna do it better

Jason Cercone: 00:59:40

than this guy and that.

Jason Cercone: 00:59:43

And he, and he was a beer fan too.

Jason Cercone: 00:59:44

He said, okay, that sounds great.

Jason Cercone: 00:59:46

And then we like minimal conversation over the couple weeks, like,

Jason Cercone: 00:59:49

yeah, we'll talk about beer, but we'll also talk about sports.

Jason Cercone: 00:59:51

So we didn't clearly define our niche and we are all over the place.

Jason Cercone: 00:59:55

And two weeks into the, from that Texas, this is what we're gonna do to launch day.

Jason Cercone: 01:00:02

I mean, that was literally the timeframe.

Jason Cercone: 01:00:04

Picked up some cheap microphones.

Jason Cercone: 01:00:05

We recorded our first episode in a noisy bar.

Jason Cercone: 01:00:09

It was garbage.

Jason Cercone: 01:00:09

We learned as we went and we got better.

Jason Cercone: 01:00:12

But if I look back on that, yes, it brought me back into the audio world.

Jason Cercone: 01:00:18

It rekindled my passion for this, so I'll always be thankful for that.

Jason Cercone: 01:00:21

But if I would've planned better, maybe that show would still be going.

Jason Cercone: 01:00:25

Who knows?

Jason Cercone: 01:00:26

But I, I just, I didn't know what I didn't know.

Jason Cercone: 01:00:30

But the fortunate thing for everybody I work with, and everybody I speak to

Jason Cercone: 01:00:33

now is I can take all those experiences and say, don't do this or do this.

Jason Cercone: 01:00:39

And these are things that I've learned from over seven years in this.

John Ball: 01:00:43

They certainly make some great stories, and if anyone's listening,

John Ball: 01:00:46

who's thinking or has started a podcast for spurious reasons uh, like vengeance

John Ball: 01:00:50

or respite or, or anything else with 'em, I said, please let us know.

John Ball: 01:00:54

I'd love to hear your stories.

John Ball: 01:00:55

But , but Jason I, it's been a real pleasure speaking to you.

John Ball: 01:00:58

I feel, once again I've learned from you and I think.

John Ball: 01:01:03

Tune into the show, has learned something from, listen to you.

John Ball: 01:01:05

If they've been paying attention there, there's a lot to take in there.

John Ball: 01:01:08

Maybe a show, one of those kind of shows that he wants to go back and have some

John Ball: 01:01:11

listen a few listens through because there's a lot of good stuff in there.

John Ball: 01:01:14

But it's been an absolute pleasure speaking to you today and everyone

John Ball: 01:01:17

to thank you for coming, sort of sharing the message, but also

John Ball: 01:01:19

having a really fun conversation on

Jason Cercone: 01:01:22

portraits.

Jason Cercone: 01:01:22

And I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you, Johnny, and to

Jason Cercone: 01:01:26

connect with your great audience.

Jason Cercone: 01:01:27

It's been a real pleasure.

Jason Cercone: 01:01:28

Thank you very much.

John Ball: 01:01:30

Now that was such a fun conversation to me to speak

John Ball: 01:01:33

with Jason, someone with whom I share so many things in common.

John Ball: 01:01:38

We are very similar in so many ways and we share a lot of similar opinions

John Ball: 01:01:43

with maybe a few important differences.

John Ball: 01:01:45

And this is one of the things that I think is particularly important for people

John Ball: 01:01:49

who, work in the same kind of area like Jason and I would potentially go for the

John Ball: 01:01:56

same kinds of clientele, and yet neither of us felt like we were in competition

John Ball: 01:02:00

with each other because we both offer different things in a different way.

John Ball: 01:02:04

We have our own styles, and we both felt that we were adding to the conversation,

John Ball: 01:02:10

not just doing exactly the same thing.

John Ball: 01:02:15

There's room for everyone.

John Ball: 01:02:16

My next episode will be continuing the series on the

John Ball: 01:02:19

seven deadly sins of podcasting.

John Ball: 01:02:21

We are moving things along.

John Ball: 01:02:23

If you want to get that kind of stuff in advance, you should be subscribed already

John Ball: 01:02:26

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John Ball: 01:02:29

You can subscribe on LinkedIn Medium or beehive.

John Ball: 01:02:32

You will find the links in the show notes to this episode where

John Ball: 01:02:36

mostly weekly I will be publishing additional content to the show, some

John Ball: 01:02:40

of which I use as show episodes.

John Ball: 01:02:43

Combine with the show that's coming out and some which will be completely

John Ball: 01:02:47

unique information that I may or may not bring into shows at various points.

John Ball: 01:02:52

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John Ball: 01:02:55

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John Ball: 01:02:58

Please consider sharing it with your friends and your network.

John Ball: 01:03:01

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John Ball: 01:03:03

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John Ball: 01:03:08

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