Quality of Mind

The Point of Now: Presence, Identity and Seeing Through the Busy Mind  The podcast series explores a game-changing understanding of the human mind that operates “Before Psychology” — the secret source that exponentially increases peace, performance, and potential for any individual or organisation.

A simple yet powerful way to see through the noisy mind 

In this episode, Piers speaks with fellow coach and author Suzie Yeulett about her new book The Point of Now, and the simple but profound direction it points towards: the present moment, the nature of thought, and the resilience that is already available beneath the noise of the mind.

The conversation explores how much of our suffering comes from living in the mind’s projections of past and future, and how presence is not something we need to find, force or practise, but something that is already here. Suzie shares how her own experience of being with her mother at the end of life revealed a natural resilience that she had not created through tools, techniques or self-improvement.

Piers and Suzie also explore the deeper Quality of Mind theme of mistaken identity: what is the “self” actually made of, and what changes when identity is seen as thought, sensation and perception rather than something solid? The episode moves from practical examples of anxiety and overthinking into a deeper inquiry into presence, feeling, identity and the possibility of living with less striving and more natural clarity.

Key Discussion Takeaways

• Presence is already here - it is not something we need to manufacture or force
• Much of our pressure comes from thought travelling into past and future
• Identity is not fixed or solid; it appears through thought, sensation and perception
• The “self” may not be something to improve, but something to see through
• Feeling is not a problem to fix - we are designed to feel
• This is not about adding another technique, reframe or grounding tool
• Simple noticing can reveal how the mind works and naturally lighten the load
• Life becomes less serious when the role of the mind is seen more clearly

Key Chapters include:

 

03:33 How change can happen through recognition rather than tools or techniques

05:08 Suzie explains “the point of now” and her inverted triangle framework

06:50 Presence is already here - we are not looking for something missing

08:42 The everyday operating system of busy-mindedness and control

10:08 Anxiety, overthinking and asking: “where is the problem right now?”

12:18  The “fear of fear” and how anticipation creates suffering

13:51 Realisation versus using presence as another technique

14:48 What is identity, and why “shifting identity” may miss the deeper point

16:05 Direct experience inquiry and seeing the self as psychological

18:49 The case of mistaken identity and why it keeps us in the operating mind

20:10 Taking things personally and how that contracts perspective

21:24 Neutral noticing, expanded aperture and seeing that it is not really happening to “me”

23:17 The part of us that is undamaged by experience

24:35 Why we are designed to feel, rather than distract ourselves from feeling

27:05 When the conceptual mind has nowhere to go

28:07 What babies show us about feeling without self-identification

29:38 Seeing the mind move from invisible, to subtle, to obvious

32:24 How trying to be present can reinforce the separate self

36:54 How far simple noticing can take us

38:11 Loosening the conviction of separate identity

41:10 The relief of seeing there may not be a problem to fix

41:51 Why the words are not the point - the recognition underneath is

43:47 Natural change versus more tools, protocols and strategies

50:15 Life becomes less serious when we take the mind less seriously

     

Curious? Want to know more?

• Explore Suzie's book "The Point of Now"    . Highly recommended. You can get some free chapters on the link. and Buy it here now  https://amzn.eu/d/5fyskTl
• Suzie's LinkedIn profile is here 

 

Explore all things Quality of Mind at www.qualityofmind.biz

3-Minute Quality of Mind Quiz Discover how much your understanding of the mind may already be shaping your performance, peace, and potential.

Audio Intro Short Course A short introduction to the understanding behind Before Psychology.

Get started with the e-book

Follow Piers Thurston on LinkedIn for regular posts and reflections.

Subscribe to the Quality of Mind YouTube channel for short insight videos exploring Before Psychology.

TASTE THE MANGO — YouTube All about Direct Inquiry. Explore for yourself.

 

The podcast series explores a game-changing understanding of the human mind that operates “Before Psychology” — the secret source that exponentially increases peace, performance, and potential for any individual or organisation.

What if procrastination isn’t a discipline problem at all — but a misunderstanding about how the mind works?

Are you ready to explore the real cause of procrastination?

 

In this episode, Piers is interviewed by Deborah Hurwitz, host of the Productivity for Perfectionists Summit. The conversation explores why so many intelligent, driven people struggle with procrastination, overthinking, and pressure — and why most solutions fail to address the real leverage point. Deborah asked some excellent questions to explore the Quality of Mind before psychology understanding. 

Rather than offering tools to manage thoughts, Piers points to something more fundamental: the understanding that our experience of life arises before psychology.

Through practical examples, metaphors, and direct inquiry, the conversation explores how perfectionism, procrastination, and the “busy brain” are not problems to fix, but signals pointing to a deeper misunderstanding about the nature of the human experience.

When this misunderstanding begins to dissolve, clarity, creativity, and ease naturally return — not through effort, but through insight.

 

Key Discussion Takeaways

• Why trying to fix your thinking with more thinking is like trying to get dry in the shower without turning the water off

• The difference between application and implication when it comes to psychological insight

• Why perfectionists often feel stuck between control and procrastination

• How flow states reveal the absence of the “separate doer”

• The idea that our experience of life consists of thought, sensation, and perception

• Why psychological experiences can be real but never true

• How emotions and sensations act as indicators of how much we’re believing our thinking

• Why resisting feelings often intensifies them — and how simply allowing sensation dissolves the struggle

• What it means to explore the space before psychology, where clarity and possibility naturally arise

• Why the future we imagine through thinking is always finite, while the space before thought is infinite

Key Chapters

00:00 – Trying to fix thinking with thinking 02:15 – Why the problem isn’t the problem 04:02 – The shower metaphor and the real leverage point 05:45 – Flow state and the absence of the separate self 09:30 – Procrastination and self-identification 10:15 – There is choosing, but no chooser 14:04 – Thought, sensation, and perception 18:18 – Real, but never true 22:00 – Sensation indicators and aperture 27:30 – Why we avoid feeling 28:00 – Leaning into sensation 31:41 – What lies upstream of the busy brain 34:31 – Infinite possibility before thought 37:30 – It happens by subtraction 38:40 – The Netflix screen metaphor 41:39 – The case of mistaken identity 44:12 – From invisible, to subtle, to obvious

 

Curious? Want to know more?

Explore Deborah Hurwitz’s Productivity for Perfectionists Summit, where this conversation originally took place. The summit brings together leading thinkers exploring fresh approaches to productivity, performance, and the pressures many high achievers place on themselves. Highly recommended. 

Explore all things Quality of Mind at www.qualityofmind.biz

3-Minute Quality of Mind Quiz Discover how much your understanding of the mind may already be shaping your performance, peace, and potential.

Audio Intro Short Course A short introduction to the understanding behind Before Psychology.

Get started with the e-book

Follow Piers Thurston on LinkedIn for regular posts and reflections.

Subscribe to the Quality of Mind YouTube channel for short insight videos exploring Before Psychology.

TASTE THE MANGO — YouTube All about Direct Inquiry. Explore for yourself.

 

The podcast series explores a game-changing understanding of the human mind that operates “Before Psychology” — the secret source that exponentially increases peace, performance, and potential for any individual or organisation. What if a huge amount of human stress, striving, and psychological effort comes from trying to fix, improve, and manage a self that isn’t actually what we think it is? Are you ready to explore that now? 

In this episode of the Quality of Mind: Transforming Business podcast, Piers is joined once again by regular guest and fellow Quality of Mind collaborator Katrijn Van Oudheudsen to explore her newly republished book, Seeing No Self.

At a time when modern culture increasingly promotes self-optimisation, productivity hacks, and constant self-improvement, this conversation questions a deeper assumption behind it all: the idea that we are a separate psychological self who must constantly be fixed, improved, and managed.

Through the lens of Direct Inquiry, Katrijn explains why this belief sits at the root of much unnecessary stress, pressure, and psychological effort — and how investigating our experience directly can reveal something very different.

Rather than offering another philosophy, mindset technique, or spiritual belief system, Seeing No Self invites readers to explore a practical and experiential approach to discovering what we actually are before the psychological identity we spend so much energy maintaining.

The conversation explores why this understanding is becoming increasingly relevant in a culture driven by identity, performance pressure, and personal responsibility — and why direct inquiry offers a simple yet powerful way to look beyond it.

Key Discussion Takeaways

• The modern self-improvement culture can unintentionally reinforce psychological pressure
• The belief in a separate self creates unnecessary stress and identity management
• Direct Inquiry offers a practical way to investigate experience rather than adopt beliefs
• Seeing through the illusion of the self reveals natural peace, intelligence, and potential
• This understanding is relevant not only for wellbeing but also for leadership and performance

Key Chapters include:

00:00 The Pressure of Modern Self-Improvement 03:30 What “Seeing No Self” Actually Means 04:40 The Hidden Resource Behind the Psychological Self 07:00 Why This Understanding Is Relevant for Everyone 10:50 The Cultural Pressure to Improve Ourselves 15:40 What Direct Inquiry Really Is 27:10 Why the Illusion of Self Is More Fragile Than It Appears 38:00 Direct Inquiry vs Traditional Spiritual Approaches 42:00 Why Most People Avoid Looking Directly 44:40 Why Inquiry Is Simpler Than We Think 46:50 Who This Book Is (and Isn’t) For

Curious — want to know more?

Buy, read and review the book now. 

You can find out more about Katrijn Van Oudheusden and her work on Daily Non-Duality Substack.

Explore all things Quality of Mind at www.qualityofmind.biz

• 3-minute Quality of Mind Quiz
• Audio Intro Short Course
• Get started with the e-book.
• YouTube Explainer — What is Before Psychology?

Watch past clients talk about the power of Quality of Mind here.

Follow Piers Thurston on LinkedIn for regular posts and reflections.

Subscribe to the Quality of Mind YouTube channel for short insight videos exploring Before Psychology.

TASTE THE MANGO — YouTube  all about Direct Inquiry. Explore for yourself.

Enjoyed the episode?

If this episode speaks to you, please follow, share, and leave a review. It helps more people discover a conversation that could genuinely change how they understand themselves, their work, and their lives.

The podcast series explores a game-changing understanding of the human mind that operates “Before Psychology” — the secret source that exponentially increases peace, performance, and potential for any individual or organisation. A real-world testimonial,: A CEO, what's changed a few months after Quality of Mind coaching 

Most leaders aren’t burnt out.

They’re functioning.

Delivering. Growing. Carrying.

But underneath that capability, there can be a constant mental load — an invisible weight of control, responsibility, and inner management that never quite switches off.

In this episode of Quality of Mind: Transforming Business, Piers is joined by Nicola Merritt, Founder and CEO of a 60-person M&A advisory firm.

On paper, things were working.

But internally, leadership felt heavier than it needed to.

This conversation isn’t about tactics, resilience strategies, or productivity systems.

It’s about what changed when Nicola began to see the source of her mental load differently — not at the level of behaviour, but at the level of understanding.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why high-performing leaders often create unnecessary psychological pressure

• The difference between confidence and deeper self-assurance

• How control subtly becomes exhausting

• What happens when the need to constantly manage thinking begins to drop

• Why clarity doesn’t need to be manufactured

• The shift from striving to something more sustainable

• How leadership matures when mental noise settles

What changed?

Nicola didn’t lose ambition.

She didn’t reduce standards.

She didn’t step back from responsibility.

What shifted was her relationship with pressure amd clarity.

The constant mental overdrive softened.

She moved to a four-day week.

She switched off her phone on holiday.

She describes finding peace not only in stillness — but in the middle of business noise.

Not because circumstances changed.

Because understanding did.

Who this conversation is for

This episode will resonate if you:

• Lead a growing organisation

• Feel the invisible weight of responsibility

• Are successful but quietly tired of the mental grind

• Have tried systems, structures, and optimisation — but sense something deeper is missing

Quality of Mind doesn’t offer tools to manage your psychology.

It points to what sits before it. What we describe as Before Psychology 

And when that is seen clearly, leadership often becomes lighter — without becoming weaker.

Resources & Links

• You can find out more about Nicola here. And her business Cortus here 
• Explore all things Quality of Mind www.qualityofmind.biz 

• 3-minute Quality of Mind Quiz  

• Audio Intro Short Course

• YouTube Explainer — What is Before Psychology?

• Watch past clients talk about the power of Quality of Mind here
• Follow Piers on LinkedIn for regular posts and reflections

• Subscribe to our YouTube channel for quick, powerful insight videos

• TASTE THE MANGO  YouTube and Sub stack all about Direct Inquiry, Explore for yourself

The podcast series explores a game-changing understanding of the human mind that operates “Before Psychology” — the secret source that exponentially increases peace, performance, and potential for any individual or organisation. A real-world testimonial, two years after the Quality of Mind programme

Most personal development delivers a breakthrough high.

A lift. A sense of clarity. A feeling that something important has shifted.

And then… it fades.

In this episode Piers is joined by Cassie, who is a leader at Shell in Incident Mmanagement for a testimonial conversation recorded over two years after she attended the Quality of Mind Three-Day Open Programme.

This is not a reflection on what felt good at the time.

It’s an honest exploration of what lasted.

Cassie shares how her understanding of Quality of Mind didn’t wear off, didn’t require maintaining, and didn’t depend on tools, techniques, or habits to keep it alive. In fact, she describes how it has continued to deepen naturally, long after the programme ended.

This episode goes beyond the usual “breakthrough moment” and looks at what happens when when meta-realisation have no half-life.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why many mindset, performance, and wellbeing approaches fade over time

• What’s different when change comes from understanding rather than effort

• How clarity, lightness, and spaciousness emerge without self-management

• Why Quality of Mind isn’t about fixing yourself or becoming better

• How relationships change when you see others as shaped by experience, not character

• What it’s like to live and work without constant inner commentary

• Why this understanding continues to work because there’s nothing to maintain

Beyond the breakthrough high

Cassie didn’t come to the programme because something was broken. She came out of curiosity.

What followed wasn’t a technique to apply or a state to chase, but a fundamental shift in how she understands thinking, emotion, pressure, and experience itself.

Two years on, she describes a Quality of Mind that hasn’t diminished with time, hasn’t required reinforcement, and hasn’t relied on discipline or practice to survive.

As she puts it simply in the conversation:

“It hasn’t worn off. It doesn’t have a half-life.”

Who this episode is for:

• Leaders and professionals who’ve tried mindset or performance tools before

• People who sense there’s nothing wrong with them, but still feel unnecessary strain

• Those tired of managing their mind instead of understanding it

• Anyone curious about change that lasts without effort

This is not a promise of constant positivity or a life without challenge.

It’s a real-world account of what happens when the misunderstanding that creates mental noise quietly falls away.

If this conversation resonates, you’re invited to explore further 

🔗 Learn more about Quality of Mind and the Three-Day Open Programme at qualityofmind.biz

 

Resources & Links

• Explore Find all things Quality of Mind www.qualityofmind.biz 

• 3-minute Quality of Mind Quiz  

• Audio Intro Short Course https://qualityofmind.online/courses/qomaudiointrocourse/

• YouTube Explainer — What is Before Psychology?

• Watch past clients talk about the power of Quality of Mind here
• Follow Piers on LinkedIn for regular posts and reflections

• Subscribe to our YouTube channel for quick, powerful insight videos

• TASTE THE MANGO  YouTube and Sub stack all about Direct Inquiry, Explore for yourself