The Make It Podcast with Chris Barkley & Nicholas Buggs

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This episode is brought to you by our e-book Mastering Film Marketing. Get your copy today at https://themakeitpodcast.com/products/mastering-film-marketing

Hello, Hello! 

In this episode, we welcome back Daril Fannin, founder and CEO of Kino Studios, to celebrate the major milestone of his horror film Undertone being acquired by A24 and its theatrical run, which generated over $9 million in opening weekend box office on a $500,000 budget. Daril shares the journey of bringing Undertone from the Fantasia International Film Festival to Sundance and ultimately to wide release, while discussing A24's unique and authentic marketing approach that helped the film connect with audiences in a meaningful way. The conversation also dives deep into the independent film ecosystem, the economics of filmmaking, the role of social media and AI tools in modern content creation, and what it truly means to "make it" in Hollywood.

We also talk about:

• The debate around Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic and how much critical scores actually influence moviegoers' choices, including an audience poll revealing that 56% of viewers say critics don't influence their decisions at all
• The viral social media post by an art director on the film Obsession, who expressed frustration about her low pay despite the film's massive financial success, and what that reveals about systemic economic inequity in the independent film industry
• The rise of Neuralink and the broader philosophical conversation about AI integration into human life, including comparisons to Brave New World, social media data harvesting, and the future of human creativity and autonomy
• Why horror is the new comedy in 2026, and how films like Undertone, Obsession, Iron Lung, and Backrooms are proving that audience-first, word-of-mouth driven indie horror is the most viable path for independent filmmakers today
• The power of resilience in the creative journey, with Daril sharing personal reflections on bouncing back from failure, surrounding yourself with the right people, and the importance of not sharing your biggest ambitions with those who can't understand the artist's path

People, Places, Products, and Websites Mentioned:

Platforms, Tools & Services

Claude / Claude Pro (Anthropic)

Cowork (Claude's agentic desktop app)

Rotten Tomatoes

Metacritic

IMDb

Letterboxd

Neuralink

Gemini

Collection Account Management Agreement (CAMA) 

FilmChain 

Films

 Undertone (Kino Studios / A24)

 Obsession (Curry Barker)

 Iron Lung

 Backrooms (Kane Parsons / A24)

 The Matrix

 Raiders of the Lost Ark

 Gladiator

 Dumb and Dumber

 The Mask

 Ace Ventura: Pet Detective

 Malcolm & Marie

 High School Musical

 Sinners

 Oppenheimer

 Hamnet

 The Deer Hunter

 Nuremberg (Russell Crowe)

Wedding Crashers

Star Wars: The Phantom Menace (Episodes I–III)

Creed III

Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania

How to Train Your Dragon (2025)

Black Phone 2

Regretting You

Avengers: Endgame

Spider-Man: No Way Home

Project Hail Mary

The Terminator

Weapons (Zach Cregger)

The Drama (Zendaya / Robert Pattinson)

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

Meet Joe Black

People — Industry & Public Figures

Daril Fannin (Kino CEO)

Ian Tuason (director of Undertone) (see note)

Nina Kiri (lead, Undertone)

Rick Rubin

Rainer Maria Rilke

Jordan Peele

Markiplier

Curry Barker (Obsession)

Kane Parsons (Backrooms)

Sally Choi (art director, Obsession)

Kevin Goetz

Jim Carrey

Mason Thames

Zendaya

Robert Pattinson

Hayden Christensen

Russell Crowe

Harrison Ford

Brad Pitt

Tom Cruise

Jonathan Majors

Forest Whitaker

Tyler Perry

Ben Stiller

Will Ferrell

Adam Sandler

Steve Martin

Siskel and Ebert

Peter Travers

Lon Harris

Cinema Joe

Christopher Nolan

Elon Musk

Mark Zuckerberg

Dick Gregory

Kevin Hart

Show Team (internal — no public links)

Joey "Bags" von Haeger

Books

The Creative Act: A Way of Being (Rick Rubin)

Brave New World (Aldous Huxley)

Nineteen Eighty-Four (George Orwell)

The Crossroads of Should and Must (Elle Luna) 

Companies & Organizations

Kino Studios

A24

Neon

Blumhouse

Village Roadshow

Orion Pictures

Artists Equity (see note)

Anthropic

DGA

SAG-AFTRA

IATSE

Rolling Stone

Fantasia International Film Festival

Sundance Film Festival

SXSW

Alamo Drafthouse

Cannes Film Festival

We are humbled to have a community of creatives who care deeply about our work. And your support makes our work possible. Every subscriber, rating, and review matters. 

So, if you like what we're doing, please consider subscribing, rating, or giving us a review. Cheers, and best of luck on your filmmaking journey. #MAKEIT

www.themakeitpodcast.store/shop/support

Hello, Hello!

In this episode, AI Hosts Alex Ivey and Allison Inverness dive deep into the remarkable career of London-based filmmaker and visual effects artist Magali Barbe, whose passion project short film Strange Beasts went viral overnight and landed her offers from 20th Century Fox and top Hollywood talent agencies. They explore how her 13 years as a pre-visualization artist on blockbuster films like Wonder Woman, Avengers: Endgame, and Fantastic Beasts gave her the technical foundation to create an independently produced short film so polished that Hollywood executives assumed it was a multi-million dollar studio production. The conversation broadens into a sweeping philosophical examination of how digital technology — from augmented reality and deepfakes to social media algorithms and genetic manipulation — is fundamentally reshaping human connection, perception, and society itself.

We also talk about:

• The psychological toll of spending over a decade executing someone else's creative vision as a pre-visualization artist, and how that frustration became the fuel for Magali's creative pivot into independent filmmaking
• The deliberate design philosophy behind the robot Max in This Time Away — specifically, why giving a futuristic robot the texture and finish of a 1970s kitchen appliance was a calculated psychological choice rooted in the uncanny valley theory
• The structural and cultural differences between the French and British film industries, including how France's government-subsidized CNC system creates institutional bureaucracy, while the UK's scarcity of funding forces a passionate, grassroots DIY filmmaking culture
• The concept of a "water bottle tour" in Hollywood — the grueling marathon of studio meetings that newly signed talent must endure, which functions less as a pitch session and more as a high-stakes personality and temperament audit
• The piano chord metaphor shared by Chris Barkley in the original interview, which equates the musical necessity of space between notes to the human need for distance and breathing room in relationships, and how modern technology's relentless drive to eliminate friction may be destroying the beautiful music of genuine human connection

People, Places, Products, and References Mentioned:

People

Magali Barbe (filmmaker/VFX artist)

David Heyman (producer)

Timothy Spall (stars in This Time Away)

Tom Cruise (deepfake example)

Films & Projects

Strange Beasts (her viral short)

This Time Away (her second short)

Wonder Woman (previs)

Kingsman: The Golden Circle (previs)

Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (previs)

Avengers: Endgame (previs)

WALL-E (robot design reference)

Companies, Organizations & Platforms

Vimeo

20th Century Studios (formerly 20th Century Fox)

United Talent Agency (UTA)

CNC (Centre National du Cinéma)

Silicon Valley

Concepts & Technologies

Pre-visualization (Previz)

Augmented Reality (AR)

The Uncanny Valley

Deepfakes

CRISPR

Bully Whippets (myostatin / double-muscling)

The Marketplace of Ideas

"Move Fast and Break Things"

Water Bottle Tour — industry-ritual slang for a series of back-to-back Studio meetings

The Piano / F♯ and F♮ Metaphor — Chris Barkley's original analogy about conflict when one note (or person) smothers another

We are humbled to have a community of creatives who care deeply about our work. And your support makes our work possible. Every subscriber, rating, and review matters. 

So, if you like what we're doing, please consider subscribing, rating, or giving us a review. Cheers, and best of luck on your filmmaking journey. #MAKEIT

Subscribe: https://themakeitpodcast.store/shop/support

This episode is brought to you by our e-book Mastering Film Marketing. Get your copy today at https://themakeitpodcast.com/products/mastering-film-marketing

Hello, Hello! 

In this episode, we sit down with legendary audience research expert Kevin Goetz, the CEO of Screen Engine, who has tested over 5,000 film and television titles for major studios over three decades. Kevin shares his journey from aspiring Broadway performer to becoming Hollywood's most trusted voice on audience testing, discussing how filmmakers can use audience feedback to enhance rather than compromise their creative vision. The conversation explores the evolution of audience expectations in the streaming era, the importance of knowing your deficits as an entrepreneur, and Kevin's philosophy on following passion over profit.

We also talk about:

• Kevin's childhood in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, and the family dynamics that shaped his drive for success

• The misconceptions filmmakers have about audience testing and how it actually enhances creative vision

• How streaming platforms have changed viewer behavior, and the need for compelling cold opens

• The importance of self-awareness in leadership and surrounding yourself with people better than you at specific skills

• Kevin's approach to delegation, team building, and scaling a business with 320 employees

People, Places, Products, and Websites Mentioned:

Screen Engine/ASI

BBMG Entertainment — kevingoetz360.com

How to Score in Hollywood

Audienceology

Producers Guild of America

American Cinematheque

Nashville Film Festival

News & Media Services

Ground News

Semafor 

The Media Line

People

Derek Guy (menswear writer)

Joan Rivers

Nicole Kidman

Charles Roven (producer)

Lauren Shuler Donner  

Richard Donner

Stephanie Allain 

Donald De Line (PGA)

Ben Fritz (Wall Street Journal)

Barbara Jarrett

Brooke Shields

Jared Leto

Travis Knight

Films & TV

Ghost

Sinners

Everything Everywhere All at Once

Hacks (HBO Max)

Masters of the Universe (He-Man movie)

Backrooms (A24)

Iron Lung

Places & Institutions

Bensonhurst, Brooklyn

East Brunswick, New Jersey

Nashville, Tennessee

Vanderbilt University

We are humbled to have a community of creatives who care deeply about our work. And your support makes our work possible. Every subscriber, rating, and review matters. 

So, if you like what we're doing, please consider subscribing, rating, or giving us a review. Cheers, and best of luck on your filmmaking journey. #MAKEIT

www.themakeitpodcast.store/shop/support

Hello, Hello!

WHAT IS FILM BRIEF?

Blending journalism with artistry, Film Brief transforms film analysis into an engaging and informative listening experience. The goal is to reveal what makes each movie or series resonate—on screen and behind the scenes. For listeners, it’s not just a review; it’s an exploration of the art of filmmaking.

BRIEF:

In this episode, host Nick explores Spider Noir, a groundbreaking superhero series that transforms Marvel mythology into a Depression-era noir meditation on aging, regret, and redemption. The show stars Nicolas Cage as Ben Reilly, a worn-down private investigator and former masked vigilante navigating the rain-soaked streets of 1930s New York. This isn't your typical superhero story—it's a slow-burn character study that prioritizes atmosphere and emotional depth over explosive action sequences.

TAKEAWAYS:

• Harry Bradbeer's directorial approach and the creative decision to use four different directors across eight episodes

• The series' bold aesthetic choice offering both color and authentic black-and-white viewing options • How the multiverse concept allows superhero storytelling to age alongside audiences

• The evolution from the animated Spider-Verse version to this more emotionally grounded live-action adaptation

• Why prioritizing older heroes and mature themes represents an important shift in superhero cinema

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Spider-Noir

Nicolas Cage

Harry Bradbeer (director)

Oren Uziel (writer)

Ben Reilly (character)

Fleabag

Enola Holmes

Raymond Chandler

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse

Peter Parker

1930s New York

Great Depression

Marvel

Spider-Man

Ebook: "Mastering Film Marketing"

We are humbled to have a community of creatives who care deeply about our work. And your support makes our work possible. Every subscriber, rating, and review matters. So, if you like what we're doing, please consider subscribing, rating, or giving us a review. Cheers, and best of luck on your filmmaking journey. #MAKEIT

www.themakeitpodcast.store/shop/support

Hello, Hello!

In this episode, AI Hosts Alex Ivey and Allison Inverness discuss the career of actress Danielle Vega, who transitioned from childhood stardom in "Barney and Friends" to adult success. Vega's journey is highlighted as a case study in resilience, detailing her early audition process, the demanding physical conditions for performers, and the supportive environment at Katie Studios. The conversation explores Vega's transition to adult professionalism, her humbling experiences on the red carpet, and her eventual success in roles like "East Los High" and "Chicago Med." The discussion emphasizes the importance of preparation, learning from failures, and the impact of early experiences on professional growth.

We also talk about:

• What it meant to be a mixed‑race child actor on a 1990s non‑union set that was paradoxically safer and more protective than many mainstream productions.
• The brutal physical reality behind the Barney suit and how witnessing that sacrifice shaped Danielle’s understanding of professionalism and dedication.
• How the “illusion of competence” and the credential trap led her to repeat the same mistake at age 22 that she learned to avoid at age 9.
• Her return to acting with East Los High, a pioneering transmedia teen drama that secretly delivered critical sex‑ed and abuse‑prevention resources to its audience.
• How all of this culminated in work on network television (including Chicago Med, directed by Carl Weathers) and a “closed‑loop” career that echoes the educational mission of Barney & Friends in a more mature form.

People, Places, Products, and References Mentioned:

Danielle Vega 

David Joyner (Barney suit performer)

Bob West (Barney's voice)

Penny Wilson (choreographer) 

Carl Weathers

Apollo Creed (fictional character)

Jake's Happy Nostalgia Show 

Barney & Friends 

Barney's Sense-Sational Day 

East Los High 

Chicago Med 

Rocky

Barney (the purple dinosaur)

Kim — Danielle's character on Barney & Friends;

Ceci Camayo — Danielle's character on East Los High

Mima & Pop Pop — Kim's fictional grandparents on Barney & Friends

SAG-AFTRA 

Southern Methodist University (SMU) 

Dallas, Texas 

Hulu

Transmedia storytelling 

Beginner's mind (Shoshin)

Illusion of competence (Dunning–Kruger effect) 

Credential trap — a discussed concept, no single authoritative source

Very Special Episode

Trojan horse (as an education-delivery strategy)

We are humbled to have a community of creatives who care deeply about our work. And your support makes our work possible. Every subscriber, rating, and review matters. 

So, if you like what we're doing, please consider subscribing, rating, or giving us a review. Cheers, and best of luck on your filmmaking journey. #MAKEIT

Subscribe: https://themakeitpodcast.store/shop/support