Cryptonized! with Mark Fidelman

Episode Description

In this episode of AI Marketing Today, host Mark Fidelman sits down with legendary copywriter and AI entrepreneur Jon Benson (benson.ai) to unpack what it really takes to:

• Make AI sound human
• Clone your brain into a 24/7 digital worker
• Use specialty AI to out-market and out-sell your competitors

Jon shares how he went from fitness author to inventor of the Video Sales Letter (VSL), why generic LLMs will never be enough for serious marketers, and how his "You Cloned" system builds AI versions of yourself that can consult, write, and think like you—about 95% as well as the real thing.

We also dive into mirror language, specialty AI vs. consumer AI, and why your job isn't at risk from AI—but from the person who knows how to use AI better than you.

Guest

Jon Benson

• Founder of benson.ai – specialty AI for copywriting and marketing
• Creator of "You Cloned" – digital brain clones for consulting & copy
• Long-time direct response copywriter and creator of the Video Sales Letter (VSL)

Resources from Jon:

• Website: benson.ai
• Cloning PDF & tools: youcloned.ai (free resource mentioned in the episode)

Host

Mark Fidelman
AI & marketing strategist, podcast host of AI Marketing Today, co-author of Agentized.

Key Topics & Timestamps

[00:02:25] – Jon's Origin Story

• From fitness author (Fit Over 40) to copywriter
• Accidentally inventing the Video Sales Letter (VSL)
• Early experiments with AI copy in 2010 and why 2017–2018 AI felt "harder than putting a rover on Mars"

[00:05:11] – Why AI Still Struggles to Sound Like You

• The gap between "decent AI copy" and a true voice clone
• Why current models still have tells and feel slightly off
• The distinction between sounding human vs. sounding like you

[00:05:31] – You Cloned: Digital Brain, Not Just Deepfake Video

• Jon's "You Cloned" offer: a digital worker that thinks and talks like you
• Training on:
  • 20+ years of emails
  • Courses, funnels, and consulting calls
• Why this requires offline / private models (Claude Code, Codex, etc.) pulling directly from your own files

[00:07:38] – Voice vs. "Voice" (Literal and Metaphorical)

• Spoken voice: 11Labs voice cloning, tricks to make it sound more human
• Strategic voice: how you think, answer questions, and advise
• Why Jon focuses on behavior and reasoning more than perfect audio mimicry

[00:08:35] – Recording Your Life vs. Recording Your Expertise

• Wearables like Limitless that record everything 24/7
• Jon's more practical approach:
  • Clone the consultant part of himself (his $5,000/hour brain)
  • Focus on marketing and copy instead of his entire personality

[00:11:32] – Imperfect Humans, Imperfect AI, and Unrealistic Expectations

• Why expecting AI to be perfect on the first draft is delusional
• Human copywriters also revise their first drafts—AI should be held to the same realistic standard
• The "microwave generation" mindset vs. real creative work

[00:15:08] – You Won't Lose Your Job to AI…

• You'll lose it to someone who knows AI better than you
• Importance of:
  • Staying on top of new models and tools
  • Understanding specialty AI, not just big general LLMs

[00:16:18] – Agentic AI & Complex Workflows

• Jon's system is fully agentic and has been for over a year
• Over 70 agents inside Benson for:
  • Big ideas
  • Viral hooks (e.g., Firecrawl searches)
  • Copy variants and consulting flows
• Difference between "has agents" and truly orchestrating specialized agents with tools and knowledge bases

[00:20:09] – Should You Even Clone Your Voice?

• When you shouldn't clone your literal voice
• Why voiceover talent (or 11Labs presets) can outperform many founders
• The real gold: your buyer's voice, not yours

[00:20:52] – Mirror Language: The Secret Weapon in Copy

• Mirror language = what your buyers secretly say to themselves in the mirror
• How Jon discovered his Fit Over 40 buyers were:
  • Average age: 67
  • 72% female
• Why that mismatch in avatar and language still sold—but could've sold 10x more with accurate mirror language

[00:24:35] – Repel Most People, Attract the Right Ones

• Jon's contrarian philosophy:
  • Don't sell to everyone
  • Repel bad-fit buyers
  • Create rabid fans who share you organically
• Speak your values clearly so the wrong people self-select out

[00:28:06] – Segmenting by Sophistication (Beginner vs. Expert)

• Newbie copywriters vs. advanced copywriters
• Why jargon like "hypnotic flow" or "reverse NLP" alienates beginners
• Analogy: talking differently to your 10-year-old vs 18-year-old without changing who you are

[00:29:51] – How the Clone Adapts to the User

• Layered questioning to determine:
  • Who the user is
  • What level they're at
  • How to pitch or advise them accordingly
• Specialty AI as a curated expert system, not "go read the whole internet"

[00:31:44] – Specialty AI vs. Consumer AI (Clive vs. Dr. Expert)

• The "Clive in his mom's basement" analogy vs. a 20-year fasting expert
• Why specialty AI with true IP will beat generic models in high-stakes niches
• Jon's stealth move:
  • Creating training only for his AI, never sold publicly
  • LLMs can't scrape it—it only lives inside his models

[00:32:41] – The Future: Your IP, Inside Your Own AI

• Corporations and experts locking their proprietary knowledge into closed systems
• Why your unique data + your unique process = the real moat

[00:32:58] – Wrap-Up & Next Steps

• Mark invites Jon back to demo the next version of Benson
• Jon invites listeners to:
  • Visit benson.ai
  • Download the cloning PDF at youcloned.ai
• Agreement to do a follow-up episode after Mark test-drives the new release

How to Reach Jon Benson

• Website - https://bnsn.ai/
• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/itsjonbenson/
• Twitter - https://x.com/itsjonbenson
• Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/itsjonbenson
• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPDvmgurd-rym4pyPjviIuw?sub_confirmation=1
• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonbenson

(He shares a personal email off-record in the conversation, but it's not in the transcript, so we'll keep it to his public sites.)

My Book

If you're serious about agentic AI, workflows, and turning AI into an actual operator in your business, sign up for our book:

👉 Get "Agentized" at Agentized.com

Learn how to:

• Design AI agents that think in multi-step workflows
• Plug AI into marketing, ops, and sales
• Stay ahead of the people who think "prompting ChatGPT" is a strategy

In this episode, host Mark talks with James Thornton, CEO of Daz 3D / Tafi, about what it really means to build an AI-centric business. James shares how his company evolved from a 3D content and avatar business into a key AI data provider for some of the world's largest tech and gaming brands.

They discuss:

• The shift from scraping web data to bespoke, rights-clean AI training data
• Using AI across product, marketing, and customer service workflows
• Real-world applications in VR, robotics, gaming, and product visualization
• How AI is transforming email marketing and localization
• What the next 3 years of AI adoption will look like inside typical organizations

Key Topics & Timestamps

[0:00:00] – Introduction & Guest Background

• Mark opens the show and frames the topic: AI-centric businesses with a marketing slant.
• James introduces himself and his company Daz 3D / Tafi.
• His background:
  • CEO at Daz for over a decade
  • Previous role growing a creative product brand from near zero to a $1B retail brand in 3.5–4 years
  • How Daz has continually pivoted into AI trends

[0:01:18] – What It Means to Be an AI-Centric Business

• James defines AI-centric as "AI-first" thinking across the business, especially in marketing.
• Emphasis on balancing AI with people, expertise, and intuition, rather than AI replacing human judgment.

[0:01:37] – Daz / Tafi's Evolution into AI

• Company roots:
  • 25-year-old business with a strong direct-to-consumer freemium model
  • Deep community of 3D digital content creators (avatars, products for gaming, etc.)
• Past pivots: work in Web3 and NFTs, then parlaying that into today's AI data and services.
• They now both:
  • Support other companies' AI initiatives
  • Use AI internally to streamline content creation and business workflows

[0:03:37] – How They Help Other Companies with AI

• Core specialty: 3D digital content, avatar systems, and digital assets.
• Use AI and procedural tools to:
  • Scale their content library
  • Produce rights-clean, structured, annotated AI training data
• Customers include top tech, gaming, and enterprise brands training foundation models for:
  • Text-to-character
  • Product creation & visualization (including physical product development)
  • Robotics and other AI applications

[0:04:51] – Concrete Benefits of AI for Clients and Daz

• Central thesis: Good AI requires high-quality training data.
• For clients:
  • Bespoke, properly licensed data for training a wide range of models
• For Daz's own business:
  • AI embedded in product workflows and content production
  • AI in product search, customer service, QA, and other functions to drive efficiency and effectiveness

[0:06:07] – AI Agents and Localization

• Use of AI agents in customer service to handle technical tickets and customer questions.
• Heavy focus on localization:
  • AI to adapt website and e-commerce for global markets
  • Integrating translation tools directly into their software so customers can use products in their native language
  • James calls this a "huge lift" for the business.

[0:07:45] – Tools: Open "Claw" and Enterprise AI Options

• They use Open "Claw" (contextually, likely a reference to a general-purpose LLM) through virtual machines across business units, including marketing.
• Acknowledge recent changes in that ecosystem and the need to adapt.
• Considering more enterprise-focused alternatives, such as the "Nemo Claw" and other corporate-friendly solutions, with an eye on governance and parameters.

[0:08:54] – Their Process for Helping Enterprise Clients

• First step: deeply understand voice of the customer and specific AI data needs.
• Industry shift:
  • Moving away from scraping the internet or generic licensing for training data
  • Toward custom, bespoke training sets
• Unique position of Daz / Tafi:
  • Own the full rights to their 3D content library (avatars, scenes, props)
  • Avoid ethical and legal issues around unauthorized training data
• Process:
  1. Scope the client's needs.
  2. Use AI and internal workflows to generate customized datasets.
• Example:
  • For a major tech company building VR headset experiences, they created tens of thousands of unique characters, avatars, clothing, and assets to train their models.
  • James notes they might be the only company able to deliver this level of tailored solution at that scale.

[0:11:34] – The Next 3 Years: How AI Changes Organizations

• Based on discussions with CEOs and senior leaders:
  • Debate continues on whether AI creates or eliminates jobs; James personally believes it will create jobs.
  • Near-unanimous view: every company must integrate AI into workflows.
  • Employees and companies with a clear AI strategy will win versus those without one.
• Expectation:
  • Continued job creation plus a strong push for AI-centric efforts in every part of the business
  • Focus on efficiency, output, and more bespoke customer solutions

[0:13:25] – Advice to Marketers & Final Takeaways

• James emphasizes "just get started" and experiment with AI.
• For marketers:
  • AI enables hyper-specific adaptation to customer needs.
  • Allows new ways of marketing that aren't feasible manually today.
• Example from their own marketing stack:
  • Their largest marketing channel is email
  • They manage a seven-figure, vetted email list mailed daily
  • AI is used to:
    • Optimize send times
    • Customize products and offers by demographic and other signals
• Overall message:
  • Embrace AI to become more effective and deliver better, more tailored customer experiences.

[0:14:58] – How to Contact James

• Website: Daz3D – daz3d.com
• Direct email: james@maketafi.com
• James invites listeners to contact him directly with questions.

In this episode of the AI Marketing Podcast, host Mark Fidelman sits down with David Amar, founder of Makina (a new conference dedicated to physical AI), to explore how robots and humanoids will change the future of marketing.

They discuss why robots are such powerful brand activations, when we might see in‑home humanoid housekeepers, how China is leading on hardware while the West leads on software, and why 2025–2026 feels like the "GPT moment" for physical AI. David also shares what to expect at Makina in Paris on July 7 and why marketers should get ahead of this trend now.

Guest

David Amar

• Background in computer science and neuroscience (UCL)
• Formerly worked in prosthetics
• Founder of Makina, a conference that brings together the fragmented physical AI ecosystem: humanoid builders, robot "brain"/OS providers, capital, industrial partners, and talent

Key Topics & Timestamps

1. Why Robots Are Marketing Gold

[0:00:00 – 0:02:24]

• David's background and the launch of Makina
• Why robots are "premium marketing material":
  • Robots tap into deep cultural fascination (e.g., Star Wars, Star Trek)
  • Simply announcing "Robot X/Y will be on site" can materially boost event attendance
• Humanoids as especially compelling because of their uncanny, human-like form

"I don't think I've ever met somebody that says this isn't interesting… It's just premium marketing material." – David [0:01:31]

2. Timeline: When Physical AI Hits Everyday Life

[0:02:24 – 0:03:25]

• David's long‑range outlook:
  • Short term: impressive demos, but still lots of technical bottlenecks
  • ~10–15 years: expect robots/humanoids in places we never imagined, with deep dependence on them
• Contrast with digital AI:
  • We're already "slaves" to ChatGPT and cloud AI for knowledge work
  • Physical dependence on robots will follow later

3. How Robots Show Up in Marketing (Beyond a Robot at a Desk)

[0:03:25 – 0:06:27]

• Robots won't replace marketers by typing at a desk—that's the realm of LLMs and digital AI
• Instead, robots will act as:
  • Brand avatars and mascots (e.g., "the Amazon robot," "the Walmart robot")
  • Physical activations at events, retail, and public spaces
  • Product demo agents in stores, on the street, or wherever target audiences gather
• Comparison to today's street activations (e.g., sign spinners) but in a far more advanced, interactive form
• Emotional/branding angle:
  • A charming C‑3PO‑style humanoid pitching products can be more captivating than a celebrity

"There's just something more charming about a C‑3PO showing the new Coca‑Cola than just a regular old Joe… even if it's George Clooney." – David [0:05:33]

4. Humanoids vs. "Robots" – What's the Difference?

[0:06:27 – 0:07:55]

• Humanoid:
  • Robot with human‑like physiology and form (height, posture, movement)
  • Tends to get anthropomorphic traits projected onto it
• Robot:
  • Any robotic form, e.g. a single robotic arm, a robot dog, or R2‑D2‑style platforms
• Long‑term: Mark expects humanoids to become increasingly indistinguishable from humans in 20+ years

5. In‑Home Humanoids: How Close Are We Really?

[0:07:55 – 0:11:29]

• West vs. Asia split:
  • West: stronger on software and AI models
  • Asia (especially China): stronger on hardware and shipping units at scale
    • Today you can already order multiple Chinese robot models online and have them delivered within a month
• Current leading players mentioned:
  • 1X – focused on household/housekeeping tasks
  • Sanctuary (Sunday Robotics) and others delivering early trial units
• Reality check on timelines:
  • No one truly knows, but David's informed estimate:
    • 5–7 years to order functional in‑home humanoids online
    • Dependent on breakthroughs in:
      • Fine manipulation of small objects
      • Robust computer vision
      • Autonomous navigation in unmapped environments
• Many "impressive" demos are partly marketing:
  • Used to raise capital, build momentum, and buy time while teams fight through technical bottlenecks

6. Data, Compute, and How These Robots Actually Learn

[0:10:42 – 0:13:16]

• Today's deployed robots are often trial models used primarily to:
  • Collect huge amounts of real‑world data
  • Train the next generation of more capable robots
• Data and compute needs:
  • Humanoids need even more data than LLMs:
    • Touch, force feedback, vision, balance, navigation, etc.
  • Massive compute, similar or greater than what's used for digital AI
• Where the compute lives:
  • Training: in large data centers, often the same infrastructure used for AI
  • On‑device inference:
    • Onboard boards like NVIDIA Jetson inside the robot's "chest"
    • Local models run on-device, optionally connected via Wi‑Fi for streaming data and updates
• Most robots in the wild are still tightly constrained and far from general-purpose autonomy

7. The Makina Physical AI Event in Paris

[0:13:59 – 0:19:11]

• Date: July 7
• Location: Station F, 13th district of Paris (central), the world's largest startup campus
• Format:
  • One‑day dedicated physical AI conference
  • Paired with the RAISE Summit (July 8–9), a broader AI conference
• Makina's mission:
  • Fix the current ecosystem problem where events are:
    • "Tech geeks talking to tech geeks"
    • "Commercial to commercial" with limited cross‑pollination
  • Bring together the full vertical stack of physical AI:
    • Humanoid builders
    • Robot brain / OS providers
    • Investors and capital
    • Industrial partners and adopters
    • Talent and researchers
• Expected scale & hardware:
  • Targeting 1,500+ attendees
  • David's goal: 18–20 robots on site, split between stage demos and exhibitor robots
• Notable participants mentioned:
  • Boston Dynamics (CEO Amanda)
  • 1X (CEO)
  • Google DeepMind Robotics leadership
  • Other leading US, European, and Asian robotics companies

"We really are trying to regroup the very fragmented ecosystem that is physical AI… the vertical stack of physical AI in terms of ecosystems." – David [0:13:59]

8. Why Marketers Should Care (Now, Not Later)

[0:16:43 – 0:18:07] & throughout

• Humanoids and robots as future marketing must‑haves:
  • Likely every major brand will have a robot avatar/mascot within ~10 years
  • Use cases:
    • Product demos & in‑store experiences
    • Public activations and stunts
    • Content creation, fail/reaction videos, and social media hooks
• Strategic advantage:
  • Marketers who understand physical AI early will:
    • Shape the first killer use cases
    • Align brand positioning with new capabilities
    • Avoid being late adopters in a fast‑moving bull run
• David's framing:
  • Physical AI is in a "bull run", possibly a GPT‑moment equivalent for the physical world
  • Huge capital flows, many new robotics startups, and intense industrial interest

9. Robotics Reality Check: Hype vs. Capabilities

[0:19:11 – 0:21:59]

• GTC/NVIDIA event anecdote:
  • Few humanoids present, many robots were wired or constrained
  • Mostly robot dog style units; limited truly autonomous humanoids
• Chinese hardware advantage:
  • Companies like Unitree and others can ship robot dogs today, often ahead of US peers on commercialization
• Software and usefulness still lag:
  • Hardware works, but what you can actually make them do is still narrow
  • Many current units are about data collection more than true deployment
• Industrial partnerships:
  • Examples: hexagon robotics & Mercedes, Figure & BMW, Boston Dynamics & Hyundai
  • Present robots can perform very specific, tightly defined tasks with minimal uncertainty
  • Outside of that, most can still just walk, dance, wave, and pose for marketing

"We're safe, and the Terminator is not coming next year." – David [0:21:59]

AI is moving faster than most marketing organizations can handle and many AI initiatives are quietly failing.

In this episode of the AI Marketing Podcast, host Mark Fidelman sits down with Steve Wunker, innovation expert, former collaborator of Clayton Christensen, and author of AI and the Octopus Organization, to break down:

• Why treating AI like a "tech upgrade" is a massive mistake

• How most companies are "AI-ifying broken processes" instead of rethinking them

• The difference between pilots that learn vs. pilots that waste time

• Why AI doesn't replace great marketers, it amplifies them

• How marketing orgs can cut campaign timelines in half (real-world example)

• Why experimentation, not tools, is the real AI advantage

• What skills will keep marketers employable over the next 5 years

• How AI changes the relationship between marketing, sales, and leadership

• Why AGI isn't the benchmark people think it is

• The Octopus Organization model for building truly AI-native companies

Steve shares practical frameworks, real case studies, and a clear roadmap for CMOs, VPs, and marketers who want results and not hype.

📘 Steve's book: AI and the Octopus Organization
🔗 Available on Amazon
🌐 https://aiandtheoctopus.com

👤 Connect with Steve Wunker on LinkedIn

00:00 – Welcome to AI Marketing Podcast
00:29 – Steve Wunker's Background & Disruptive Innovation
01:27 – Why AI Fails as a "Tech Upgrade"
02:13 – The Problem With AI Pilots That Go Nowhere
02:48 – Top-Down AI vs Bottom-Up Experimentation
03:32 – The ABC Framework: AIFI, Experiment, Create
03:53 – Why Companies Aren't Using AI to Create the Future
04:18 – AI vs The Early Internet Era
05:07 – Why AI Training Fails in Marketing Teams
05:56 – Real Case Study: Cutting Campaign Planning by 50%
06:55 – Fixing Broken Processes Before AI
07:58 – Are Employees Sabotaging AI Adoption?
08:38 – "You Won't Lose Your Job to AI — You'll Lose It to Someone Using AI"
09:24 – AI as a Thought Partner (80/20 Rule)
09:55 – Tools vs Process: What Actually Matters
10:38 – Using AI Inside Existing Martech Stacks (Adobe, Email, Creative)
11:24 – What Happens to Copywriters & Creative Teams
12:11 – Reskilling vs Cost Cutting
13:03 – Career Advice: How Marketers Stay Relevant
13:52 – Why Critical Thinking Matters More Than Ever
14:38 – Marketing & Sales Converging Through AI
15:22 – Why You Must Specialize in AI Skills
16:03 – Managing AI Productivity at Scale
17:08 – Rapid Ad Creation & AI Video Tools
18:01 – Inverting Traditional Marketing Systems
19:15 – New Organizational Models for AI
19:21 – Steve's Book: AI and the Octopus Organization
20:17 – Why the Octopus Is the Perfect AI Metaphor
21:24 – What Leaders Get From the Book
22:47 – When AGI Really Matters (and When It Doesn't)
24:06 – AI vs Human Judgment
25:13 – The Human Skills That Will Always Matter
25:34 – Where to Find Steve Wunker
26:02 – Final Thoughts & Wrap-Up